"Inside out" wall construction

gearmike · Post by **gearmike** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:47 am

Can some one point me to an in depth article on Inside out wall construction?

Thanks,

mike

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:56 am

Hey Mike, i've been doing research myself and all I could find was this thread:http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =insideout
I was just going to post my questions, so I may as well ask here

I am going to float the live room and vocal booth only. So I'm thinking of using John's walls in there.
What's unclear to me is how to assemble the walls... I understand you build your wall on the floor and then screw the clad on it. i just can't see how you SEAL the unit. I have 2 walls that are roughly 13'. Do I make one huge wall or do I break them down in small partitions? I can't imagine lifting a 13 foot wide wall with 1 3/4" of clad on it

Here's my take on the ceilings; you would mount your 2x6's on the walls (maybe using joice hangers) and then attach the "panels" on these 2x6's. I attached a pic of what I think is a panel

I guess I could even angle these ceilings while I'm at it.

Any of this making sense?

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:05 am

I believe these are cloth covered ceilings. Not plasterboard where you have indicated. As thorough as John is, that is what I believe he is doing.

I am building the very same ceiling for my live room, we just placed the studs, rockwool and resilient channel. Next is 2 sheets of plasterboard/drywall with celotex sanwiched in between.

Walls go in then we build the drop ceiling with AFB in the cavity with a cloth cover.

Bryan Giles

Photos to follow

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:08 am

are you asking about ceiling the backside? and is the wall we are speaking of, is it the design in the photo? if so, the back side of the wall is sealed when you have the studs attached to the drywall with acoustic ceiling, etc....

or vice versa, drywall attached to the studs

Bryan Giles

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:13 am

I guess my pic isn't too clear. If you look carefully there's a thin black outline around what I presume to be the "panel".
I know these are cloth covered with the drywall inside so to speak.
My live room will be floating like in John's picture. Not too sure I understand your construction

In your second post, you've got me confused with the way you're writing "ceiling" when I assume you're meaning "sealing"!

The answer to this post is YES, I am talking about SEALING the backside.
The way I see it, you have to install the drywall completely "end-to-end" in order to SEAL properly, right? And if you do this, then you would have to do the whole wall in one take. Or maybe I'm just getting brain cramps

giles117 · Post by **giles117** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:23 am

Thanks, I misse dthat grammer error.

Anyhow, You seal the gaps in the drywall and the gaps in the "studs to drywall construction" with acoustical sealant.

That will make the cavity airtight for your slats.

Nah, John uses the blue to indicate the drywall/plasterboard panel

Look at the very next pic on that site and you will see those are acoustical ceiling panels for that diagram, if you scroll down further you see the same ceiling with a cloth cover. That is the one I am doing

<img src = "http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... ng%202.gif" /img>

<img src = "http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... ng%201.gif" /img>

Bryan

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 11:11 am

Luke, your concern about the "brute force" required to tip up completly sheathed wall sections, plus the loss in low frequency TL caused by a shallower air gap, are two reasons why I personally would NOT build inside-out walls unless I was REALLY cramped for space.

If I'm not mistaken, John originally came up with that idea as a way of solving the problem of "not enough space for everything" - However, when you're NOT cramped for space, it's much easier to put up a frame, and THEN add wallboard, etc - plus, extra air space between leaves contributes a LOT to better low frequency TL. Additionally, it can be a real ordeal to stand a heavy COMPLETE wall up without it shifting, and to make sure that heavy bead of caulk you put down behind the wall, actually ends up SEALED.

Also, I've recently become convinced that it's better to first build a sound proof room (planning ahead, of course), and THEN tackle the acoustics. Reason being, that any frequency your wall "traps" is also going to pass THROUGH that wall easier than others. For this reason, I would not consider building a wall with less than two, preferably three, layers of paneling on each side. The further apart those leaves of 2-3 layers are, the better.

Between your live room and control room, your walls should be as close to perfectly sound proof as you can make them - otherwise, save the space and make it all one room. Just my opinion, based on trying to make a single room work for 20 years... Steve

Post by **John Sayers** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:20 pm

as a way of solving the problem of "not enough space for everything" -

yes it was - it also saves heaps on materials as one wall structure holds up the sound barrier (drywall) PLUS holds the internal acoustic treatment. It was also a design that could be modular. The wall units are made in 8 x 4 modules that screw together and the ceiling is also modules thus the ceiling module drawings above.

BTW Left Bank is built inside out and there are absolutely no STC problems there - in fact I was amazed how good it is.

So I wouldn't write it off so easily.

cheers
john

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 3:55 pm

Cool, John - I missed seeing anything about the modular approach before -
"absolutely no STC problems there " -

That's one of the fun things about acoustics/sound proofing - no matter what you learn, there's always something that will prove it wrong... Steve

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:35 am

We'll I'm not writing them off yet, just as long as I can figure out how to build them

John, if I understand your last post correctly, this would mean that at the point where the walls join there would be no wallboard just 2X4's and sealant, right?
I used one of your pictures and "joined" the walls to illustrate.

P.S. John could you confirm my "take" on your ceiling "panels" from my post above?

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:25 am

This is what I meant. - see attached.

The ceiling is similar in that the Main support beams sit on the top plate of the wall and the ceiling panels attaches to the beams and the walls through the top plate with a sealent as well.

cheers
john

Luke · Post by **Luke** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:46 am

Right, ok I understand the corner construction. What about where the walls join side by side?

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 5:47 pm

John - do you have any similar drawings on how to do a non 90degree corner - ones where the walls meet at an angle. I'm about a month away from putting up the walls and have been wondering how to join the corners of walls that are not 90

AndrewMc · Post by **AndrewMc** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:46 am

every studio has none 90degree walls, so I'm sure this has been figured out many times - anyone?

Post by **John Sayers** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:40 am

Like this Andrew.

cheers
john