John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi. I have been using this forum as a resource for some time now and am finally making my first post! I hope I follow all the guidelines for posting correctly..

After reading many posts it seems that much emphasis is put on proper power implementation/wiring to achieve high quality and noise/hum/ groundloop-free audio/video playback. I am in the process of building a garage studio (control room) and am nearing the end of framing it out. I have an electrician coming tomorrow (12/15) and have put together a diagram plotting where and how I would like power run throughout the studio.

In a nutshell I do all types of post production sound and picture work, as well as instrumental tracking/mixing. To give you some perspective of what is located where within the studio, I have a workstation (desk) that I will situate in front of what used to be the garage door entry way, any clients with me will sit behind me on the “raised” floor area at a nice tall desk.

Basically I have three dedicated circuits at the garage. All three of them are running back to my house panel:

One 20 amp circuit I was thinking of dedicating to speakers ONLY. I will have a 5.1 monitoring setup..and maybe some alternate front pairs, hence the AC locations for that circuit.

The other 20 amp circuit I was thinking of putting all my other studio gear on (G5 system with cinema displays and 5 external hard drives, MOTU 896 audio interface, about 5 pieces of rack gear ranging from a VCR to a lexicon MPX1 to a headphone dist. amp, other misc low power consump gear, 42" plasma TV, eventual ProtoolsHD system)

The 15 amp circuit I was thinking of putting all my lighting on as well as other non studio gear such as phones, iMac computer, desk lamps, and general AC usage for clients (laptop power, cell phone chargers, etc)

The tracks on the ceiling will supply all the ceiling lighting in the studio. I would like each track on a dimmer for flexibility. Seems like I would need variac dimmers like the STACO 511/501 for trouble-free dimming but that may get too $$.

I was also going to implement a star grounding system for the 2 20 amp circuits. After reading up it would seem that I would independently run the ground from each outlet to an independent ground rod...possibly one the electrician could install right next to the studio. Is this correct for the star system? Sounds like I should use metal conduit for the ground runs in this system. Do I also need conduit for all the other AC line runs through the framing?

Is the layout I have designed overkill? It would seem to be with 20 boxes (I can’t even imagine how much conduit/wire I would need!! Perhaps I can put ALL my studio gear, speakers, CPU, and all on one 20 amp circuit and figure out some other usage for the extra 20 amper? I just figure why not go nuts if the costs do not get too high. I always thought it would be nice to have independent control of the powering of my gear.

I will be mounting about 2.5" of additional acoustical "treatment" on top of the gypsum so would probably surface mount the boxes on the wall/ceiling. The floor would seem a good place for boxes for my upper deck area.

I was also trying to figure out how to include clean power (like via a furman PL8) for all the speakers with my current possible wiring setup.

I have very little low voltage stuff...just some video cabling for the plasma on the "garage door" wall, and some mic ties from my office across the hall....so I will not need to worry about running audio/video and AC lines too close..

Thank you for any help and for putting up with my minimal knowledge on the topic (and high volume of written info)

Greetings and Welcome to the site.

First off, it's hard to be overkill w/ a number of outlets in a recording studio. There's always something to plug in.

One thing you may consider, is putting a subpanel in the studio.

Conduits are nice, because you can pull multiple wires through for outlets. And all wires are together (Hot, Common, Ground) for codes reasons. Such as this... http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=147

As you see in those pictures, I dedicated a circuit to each monitor (also 5.1 setup) for the most flexibility. I also currently have provisions for 20 isolated ground duplex outlets just in the Control Room alone. And they're all being used.

I'll add more later. Gotta get back to work...

It's TODAY - best I can suggest is to print out the thread(s) on star grounding here, and have your electrician read them; anything he/she disagrees with you should ask about BEFORE the work gets done.

Unless you get lucky, it's not likely your electrician has done technical power installs and may not see the reasons for some of these points... Steve

Welcome to the forum. Nice drawing, by the way!

Wow...looks like I got the cream of the crop for repliers

Thank you for your input. I reviewed the star grounding diagram with my electrician as well as AaronW's pictures (very impressive BTW...some of the best conduit runs my electrician had ever seen..our jaws were literally on the ground). We then also reviewd my specifications regarding my proposed AC layout. Unfortunately his estimate was (understandably) WAY to high for my modest $2000 electrical budget (labor and parts). I am attaching an up to date illustration of the studios current design state to meet this budget.

My push to get this project done fast has unfortunately left me with very little time to be as thourough and meticulous as I usually am on such projects. My total budget is around $8000 which I have found to be extremely tight to say the least

This budget is for EVERYTHING A-Z (designing,building, finishing, and acoustical design...yea, I know...RIGHT!!!)

This forum is my savior right now!! Thank you for the kind welcome guys. I have been following Sharward's work as well and am blown away at the professionalism of your project...

I will continue to post more details on what other choices I made for this project if anyone is interested.

koberlin1 wrote:Wow...looks like I got the cream of the crop for repliers
. . . Thank you for the kind welcome guys. I have been following Sharward's work as well and am blown away at the professionalism of your project...

I'm not worthy! But seriously... Thanks for the kind words.

This just jumped out at me -- are you closing in your waterheater, and just leaving a little mini door to get to the control/thermocouple? If so, there's no way that will meet code, let alone work for you when (not "if") you need to replace the waterheater.

I know you're on a budget, but you might consider changing out your water heater for a tankless model, like this one. You'll spend a lot for it (I think around $1,500 with installation, plus or minus), but it may pay for itself in terms of efficiency over the years, and you'll be able to reclaim the floorspace that your current tank takes up -- or at least not have to worry about enclosing it.

Something to think about.

--Keith

More outlets is never bad, i have 3 circuits in my single room, one circuit is one side of the wall the other is the other side of the wall and one more for the cieling lighting. Never short an outlet, its nice.

Fill

Sharwood,

The H20 heater will not be enclosed, that black line on the left of it reperesents a 1.5' high box it is sitting on. It, along with the water softner, and storage, will be in that back room accessible by the door. The heater and softner will be able to be replaced when needed....jsut not as easily as from the front

I also am busting a vent hole through wall next to the H2O heater to the outside for fresh air as well as a spot to run the A/C Heater unit pipes through...just found out that the unit I am getting installed pulls about 10-12 amps so will need to run a new circuit from my house board...means I am gonna be up all night digging a trench from my house board to the condenser loaction as my electrician, whose last day is tomorrow, cannot return until after the unti is installed (and the unit will need the power!).

I am investigating what type of track lighting to buy...looking in Juno and Halo stuff as rec per my electrician. I am planning for four tracks on the ceiling...each wih independent dimmer control. Any suggestions as I am lookinig through the wealth of knowledge this forum offers??

This may or may not apply to you in San Diego, but check out this handy water heater document from the City of Camarillo. You may be on different model codes, so it's up to you to verify that.

By the way, I see your mini split, but I don't see your ventilation... What's your plan for fresh air?

koberlin1 wrote:I am investigating what type of track lighting to buy...looking in Juno and Halo stuff as rec per my electrician. I am planning for four tracks on the ceiling...each wih independent dimmer control. Any suggestions as I am lookinig through the wealth of knowledge this forum offers??

You'll pay alot more for Juno products but they are nice and better quality than the Halo (Cooper) stuff. Not to say Halo is terrible. There's lots of cheap crud (HomeRepo) out there. Are you thinking LV track heads with built in Xformers, LV track system, or line voltage? Those LV heads have been known to make some field noise especially with dimmers (variac). Plus you need the non-mag type dimmers for the LV stuff I believe.$$$

sharward wrote:This may or may not apply to you in San Diego, but check out this handy water heater document from the City of Camarillo. You may be on different model codes, so it's up to you to verify that.

By the way, I see your mini split, but I don't see your ventilation... What's your plan for fresh air?

Thank you for the link. My enclosure seems to meet most of the requirements that Camarillo has. I poked a large 5" by 20" vent hole through the house wall to the outside. I also have a "plug" on the inside studio wall in front of the heater for access to the heaters control area. If I pop the plug fresh air comes in nicely. To implement a AC/Heating ducted system with a fresh air intake was too $$...so I had to make some compromises. I was able to find someone to install the minisplit for $1500 ($750 for the units and the rest for labor)...will have to run a new 15amp circuit from the house board as the unit's 10amp load would totally tax what would have been my "lighting" circuit.

ridgeback wrote: You'll pay alot more for Juno products but they are nice and better quality than the Halo (Cooper) stuff. Not to say Halo is terrible. There's lots of cheap crud (HomeRepo) out there. Are you thinking LV track heads with built in Xformers, LV track system, or line voltage? Those LV heads have been known to make some field noise especially with dimmers (variac). Plus you need the non-mag type dimmers for the LV stuff I believe.$$$

Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track?

After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers.

My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright.

Would a variable power transformer work with any lighting? If I had 2 75 watt halogen bulbs per track I would think that a variable dimmer rated at 1.5 amps would be ok?

I also ran extra wire to mount wall sconses, 2 on each side of the room, each pair hopefully on their own dimmers as well.

However, with my modest $500 lighting budget perhaps my Juno/Staco combo is not realistic...

Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track?
Those would be line voltage heads so no transformers

After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers.
You'll want their standard line voltage track, a floating feed not an end feed. Again no transformers so you're saving $ right there.

My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright.
I'm pretty sure you'll get noise off the Divas. Nice dimmers though.

koberlin1 wrote:. . . I poked a large 5" by 20" vent hole through the house wall to the outside. I also have a "plug" on the inside studio wall in front of the heater for access to the heaters control area. If I pop the plug fresh air comes in nicely. To implement a AC/Heating ducted system with a fresh air intake was too $$...so I had to make some compromises. . .

Let me see if I understand this... You have a vent on the exterior wall to allow the water heater to breathe, and you have an access panel from the studio to the water heater controls, and you expect to use this trap door as your fresh air supply for the studio?

If so, that will not pass code. Aside from the overall badness of trying to siphon off air that is intended for the water heater, you need to make up for the fact that you have no operable windows in your studio.

Please do a search for "ventilation" by author "sharward" to see the threads in which I have covered this topic in a lot of detail. Not that I'm "the ventilation expert" around here, but I ran into this showstopper obstacle in my own project. I finally broke through that design barrier and I was able to secure my construction permit a couple of weeks later.

And lest you think this is all just overkill and crazytalk, please review my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread.

I realize you're under a tight budget... But if you don't have the money to follow code and follow safety laws, then you should put your project on hold and start saving your money so that you can do it right the first time. The hidden costs of cutting these critical corners could result in your losing all of your investment, or worse.

I was able to find someone to install the minisplit for $1500 ($750 for the units and the rest for labor)...will have to run a new 15amp circuit from the house board as the unit's 10amp load would totally tax what would have been my "lighting" circuit.

That sounds really good. Do you have that quote in writing? On what brand and model number unit is the quote based? Or are you planning to buy the system online and then have someone install your stuff? (The latter is something I'd like to explore myself, as I think I'm getting highballed on the quotes I have received.)

ridgeback wrote:Yes, Juno seems more pricey but seems to have a quality build and has some nice looking models. I have little experience with lighting but was told by my electrician to look for, and I quote, "incandescent track heads with halogen bulbs" I assume this means the transformer is in the light head as opposed to on the track?
Those would be line voltage heads so no transformers

After viewing the Juno website I left pretty confused as to which one of their many track products was suitable for my needs...I just want a track that I can attach more tracks to if I wanted, a track that connects to the AC line in the center of the track as opposed to the end, and non flashy 50-75 watt halogen heads with built in transformers.
You'll want their standard line voltage track, a floating feed not an end feed. Again no transformers so you're saving $ right there. ]

Thanks for the clarifications ridgeback. After more research I am looking at Juno's CMH fixtures...seem to use less power and last longer with similar brightness results. Seems like I would use the line voltage track system with CMH heads....however finding the sale of the CHM heads is tough...will call Juno and get some distributor resources. Could also just get this kit:

http://www.farreys.com/lighting/juno/trac_lites.html
(R4K2501W-WH)

ridgeback wrote:My electrician also suggested Lutron's "Diva" dimmers. I brought up AC noise getting into my audio signals and then showed him a forum topic regarding the variable power transformer dimmers and he said to try the Lutrons first before dropping the cash on something like the Staco's. Also, with four tracks, each needing independent dimming control, it would seem that I would need the equivalent of 4 2 gang boxes! That is a lot of boxes. If there was variable transformer that required a single gang box I would be more willing to just buy the things outright.
I'm pretty sure you'll get noise off the Divas. Nice dimmers though.

Are there any less expensive Staco alternatives? I have found a few companies I think...Creston and AMX. It is critical that these things are single gang in size as well.

ridgeback wrote: Let me see if I understand this... You have a vent on the exterior wall to allow the water heater to breathe, and you have an access panel from the studio to the water heater controls, and you expect to use this trap door as your fresh air supply for the studio?

As of now yes.

ridgeback wrote: If so, that will not pass code. Aside from the overall badness of trying to siphon off air that is intended for the water heater, you need to make up for the fact that you have no operable windows in your studio. ?

It sounds as though I should look for a similar description of garage water installtion codes for San Diego as your Camarillo link earlier... I believe in the description you sent me there were ventillation guidelines for ducted water heaters. I believe my heater has no ducted intake air source...it just pulls air in from a general opening at the pilot light area..

ridgeback wrote:Please do a search for "ventilation" by author "sharward" to see the threads in which I have covered this topic in a lot of detail. Not that I'm "the ventilation expert" around here, but I ran into this showstopper obstacle in my own project. I finally broke through that design barrier and I was able to secure my construction permit a couple of weeks later.

Your Fantech's sole purpose is to feed fresh air into the studio and move old air out yes? The actual heating and cooling is done with your split unit?

ridgeback wrote:And lest you think this is all just overkill and crazytalk, please review my "Permits, Codes, Licenses -- and WHY YOU SHOULD CARE!" thread.

I realize you're under a tight budget... But if you don't have the money to follow code and follow safety laws, then you should put your project on hold and start saving your money so that you can do it right the first time. The hidden costs of cutting these critical corners could result in your losing all of your investment, or worse.

Your link was very informative and definitely made me rethink some things. My reasoning for starting without building permits was as follows: due to time constraints (as currently I have no studio to do my work in), as well as budget contraints (as you point out) I decided that working with a professional studio designer, contractor, HVAC installer, and electrician, avoiding any self installation work, would have to suffice for building to code. In other words I would rely/trust on their expertise and code-abiding installation processes to meet needed safety measures (I obviously do not want the ceiling falling on my head or things catching on fire!).

I also reviewed some stuff online and their seem to be severe restrictions regarding garage overhauls...like no penetrating the slab with screws, keeping the garage door functional, not raising the slab to the homes floor level, etc. All of these basically meant to me that I could not do ANYTHING in the garage...so getting permits would not help as I would not be able to get them! We also have an HOA that specifies that NO LIVEABLE DWELLINGS be built in the garages. Now to me this means do not build a room with a bed. However, I did not want to chance going through the city and them requesting information from the HOA and the HOA calling me and saying NO WAY!

It has been on my mind however as we will eventually sell the home. That may be years away but the time will eventually arise. In my last house we built an entire wall dividing a huge room into two, without a building permit, and it posed no problem when selling our home (the inspector did not seem to care). With this garage renovation being somewhat larger I am assuming this outcome will not be repeated as easily. As of now I will sell the room as a Home Theater (as I ran extra speaker wire for surrounds). I am sure they will ask if I have a building permit it and will tell them no. What happens after that I do not know.

SO, in your opinion, and me being about 85% finished, and me losing some sleep over it, is it worth me approaching the city for a permit or is that totally unrealistic?

ridgeback wrote:That sounds really good. Do you have that quote in writing? On what brand and model number unit is the quote based? Or are you planning to buy the system online and then have someone install your stuff? (The latter is something I'd like to explore myself, as I think I'm getting highballed on the quotes I have received.)

I was typically getting $2500 quotes for installation. However, I finally came across a company that was willing to try to meet my $1500 budget. The estimate is back in California (as I am in FL right now) so I do not know the split model off hand. It is a Hitachi...