Pro Tools or Logic ???

LeonX · Post by **LeonX** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:53 pm

You can't buit a studio with great acoustics,without 50k...
And you can't have the industry standard in HD recording and processing without at least 10k.
It's the way pro-tools treats the sound......
It's the way you treat the mix....
And that's why these things costs...
But logic becomes the new standard...
Who will finally win?????????
I Believe Accid.................................................
FINAL WORD:
If you don't want to spend money for the BEST (PT-LOGIC),
try others and choose the one you feel better with on mixing...
NoOne will ever notice if the mix is on Crushbase , influendo ,solar barbietude etc...
All these sequencers are extremely good , with a steady system and
setup, to make a complite cd,dvd and what ever you need,but as a student and a teacher (for a year) on PT i have selected........
Of course i'm young enough (22) to change my opinion.....

Jujuman · Post by **Jujuman** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:17 pm

I've HAD to use ProTrash for 6 years in high end studios......never again for me. If you want to use something that will allow you to do the same work a whole lot easier with an interface you can design to fit your needs then you should check out www.sawstudio.com. It has a far more stable mix engine. NEVER had a hiccup let alone a crash in 2+ years. Rock SOLID!!! You owe it to yourself and your clients.

P.S Purchase an Mbox so that if your clients ask if you have Pro Trash you don't have to lie.

I'll put SAWstudio up against ANY other DAW you can name. Make sure you check out the SAWradio to listen to mixes done in SAW.

Just because Pro Trash did it right FIRST does not make them the BEST in the END>>>>

Jujuman

LeonX · Post by **LeonX** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:38 am

This sawtoothing is very expencieve!!!!!!!(2500)??????????for a Nananananative thing.....
Anyway,you jujuman seem to have experience......
I've worked PT from 6.4 to 7 on HD......
I've no experience with older versions But i've heard that there was
a team who had designed a sequencer better than Ptrash many years
ago and that they made a newone in our days....Is this sawstudio
has to do with that????
(2500=sawstudio=Neumann tlm 103+Avalon M5)...

Jujuman · Post by **Jujuman** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 12:12 pm

Hey Lenox,
The software is expensive but there are some things to consider.

1) The maker of SAW has a good faith agreement which allows you to pay for it in installments.

2) Because you can use ANY hardware that you like you are not locked into OVERPRICED hardware.

3) the main thing that SAW has that PT does not have is DYNAMICS on evrey channel. NATIVE!!! there is no need to patch in eq or a comp to tweek a track, its already there. This alone will save you $1k in plugins.

4) Workflow and stability. With SAW you will get through your projects at least 25% faster due to a more logical workflow. The software is laid out just like a REAL console. Because of this you can use SAW as a live console as well with no problem. Stable as a rock!!! No crashes EVER for the past 2+ years.

Once you try SAW you will not look back. BUT you should use the demo for at least 6 months before you make your switch.

Once again check out the demo at www.sawstudio.com.

P.S. SAW is a diff program all together. Nothing to do with PT's developers.

Jujuman

GuitarGodgt · Post by **GuitarGodgt** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:42 pm

PC's suck so terrible. No mac user would be stupid enough to sell thiers and buy a PC. Common guys who would go from a machine that has a working os to a machine with an os that crashes too much. Plus there is just no comparison to how much better macs are for recording.

Loren

Sideshow · Post by **Sideshow** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:40 pm

GuitarGodgt Posted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PC's suck so terrible. No mac user would be stupid enough to sell thiers and buy a PC. Common guys who would go from a machine that has a working os to a machine with an os that crashes too much. Plus there is just no comparison to how much better macs are for recording.

Wow, Mac vs PC - gimme a break - such an ancient war.....

That old argument is actually starting to smell....

I was a Mac Service Centre Engineer for 10 years...and at home I used Cubase VST on Macs - they did the job. They crashed too. They were damn expensive too. That has changed a lot for the better. I have seen the latest Mac DAWS and models - they work well.
Tiger and Panther are great implementations of BSD...http://www.bitpipe.com/tlist/UNIX.html
I changed to PCs after the (IMHO) appalling first version of OSX server. Our company changed too - 14000 machines...corporate support issues with Apple were not the best at the time - and big companies can also be like sheep...

PCs are just as good, fast and stable as any Mac machine.
All these benchmark tests you see in mac magazines? Give me a break - they only show you the bench mark tests they want to show you

With a sleek customised PC it really depends on if you REALLY know what you are doing to customise "under the bonnet".
I know that PCs take a little more to "get your head around" if you are not used to them. If you are used to them no problem.
Out of the box both platforms and hardware sets are fine too.
I have found as a rule of thumb dedicated consoles with built in processors and "customised" OS versions seem to be at least 6 months old by the time they are released...but this is about workflow and music right - not chasing technology?
Neither OS crashes much these days (I haven't had a crash on either for over 2 years - I work on both at an operating and code system level - and I REALLY run them thru their paces. or I fail them - and the comany does not buy them - simple!) I run Cubase SX3 at home on my PC (my old one and now my new one - I wanted a dedicated Web/email server).

I will not return to Mac at this point in time - they are good - incidentally I have one on my desk at work (for legacy app support) - as well as a PC.
BTW My old Beige G3 sits under the bed at home collecting dust if you want it...I still have a soft spot for it...

In relation to Pro Tools vs Cubase vs Logic - my wife works with Pro Tools at work in a BIG national Radio station. She likes it - so do her colleagues.
She also loves Cubase.
The radio station bought Pro Tools some years ago when it was supposed to be "IT".
In talking to their staff who use Pro Tools every day they also wonder whether the Pro Tools argument is still valid now days.
How does Pro Tools integrate with Reason? Unsure..
The difference between them (to me) seems like Karma Sutra move number 101 - only you use your little finger....Relatively speaking Cubase is (IMO) busy on the clicks and real estate - but it gets the job done without having to dumb down and simplify things all the time. It works for me. Cubase has REALLY come of age. Then again so have the others. For those wondering what to get? Let your budget do the talking and get some better mics

I use Cubase SX3 professionally as a second job - not really a hobby - it is a passion - a love. And it pays - not as much as the day job but that's another story huh!?
Logic? I used a light version 10 years ago - don't know enuff about it to comment sorry.
The guys I know with Cakewalk, Acid and Live seem to (generally) have a different agenda with "fashion" and "technology". That's cool..Esp Live - great for it's namesake..It doesn't make them good or bad (as people/engineers or DAWS)...just different.....I can accept that. It all makes music at the end of the day and makes em happy.

A DAW is a DAW - you like what you are familiar with, you like what fits your budget and what you are trying to do.
Can you hear the difference in DAW in a final product MP3, or CD, or DVD.
Didn't think so. Tape maybe...

Funny - EVERY fully pro engineer I know uses Nuendo...and they have strings of hit songs longer than my arm...

GuitarGodgt - Stay with your Mac and be happy (especially with Intel Macs coming to get ya)

- slag off PCs if you want to....but understand that people who know will set you straight if you get all "evangelical" and "biggotted" about Macs to the detriment of other worthy platforms and DAWS
..

PS Rod - good topic - thanks.
My 2 cents

StudioE · Post by **StudioE** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:52 am

I work in 2 seperate facilities now. I used to be a ProTools TDM user.
We currently run Digital Performer, Logic Pro, & Samplitude. Samplitude rocks (for Me)! It just sounds great and the audio editing is a dream. The other apps are extremely capable. It depends on your style. DP or Logic are great on the MIDI side (soft synths, etc), if that's how you want to go. If I were shopping for a new DAW right now, I would check out features & workflow. Pick the one that's best for your style. I wouldn't worry about Mac vs. PC. Intel Macs can run WindowsXP with BootCamp loaded. I know several Mac guys running PC audio apps on their Macbook Pros & iMacs quite successfully.

As far as PT goes, a lot of folks jumped off because of sound quality (digi's dirty little secret). There are other apps out there that sound much better.

I would suggest Logic or DP if you're doing electronic based music or Samplitude or Nuendo for audio recording/editing.

knightfly · Post by **knightfly** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:58 pm

Been using Samplitude since version 3.something, tried others but couldn't find anything that worked or sounded that good (but it's been awhile since I tried, can't see fixing somethin' that ain't broke) Steve

fuzzymug18 · Post by **fuzzymug18** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:00 am

I have both Protools 7.1 and Logic express 7 on my iMac G5. They work well together. To me, Protools has better editing and accuracy (which I use for Vocals/Drum mixes/Instruments) and I use Logic Express 7 for the arrangement of the song and/or adding virtual instruments to the mix. I do the mixdown in Logic and the mastering in Protools.

To me, Protools has these advantages:

*Easy to use interface (most people are tooo lazy to figure it out)
*Good mastering tools
*Protools accepted in most professional studios (If you wanted to send our mix to another studio to get professionally mixed down, you could send your WHOLE pro tools session and they could seemlessly master it in their LE or HD ProTools Systems)

Logic has these advantages:

*Also easy to use if you know how to
*Loads of plug-ins/synths/sound loops/tools though not the best of quality
*Good for peicing together an Idea on a keyboard (The creative Process)

PM me if you want more information/advice...I have to go to school.

nyves · Post by **nyves** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:40 pm

It's september, and we're back !

All questions about DAW's hide one big, that is never clearly answered :

Does TDM2 have something it it's sound treatement architecture
that make it 8000 $ better than native processing on a
recent computer ?

It's just that simple question, and it's always deviate to
talk about
software / hergonomy/ simplicity of use/ compatibility/ reliability/
velocity/controle surface and all that .....

All about hands, but what about ears ?
All about the bottle, what about the wine ????

Or so quickly and in very strange words !
Come on , if there's engeneers, acurate, realy experienced,
the real bullshit proof mates you can still find in the music industry:
TELL UUUUUUSSS ! ... something, anything, and then I can sleep !

jczebra · Post by **jczebra** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:19 am

I agree with fuzzymug about the combination of PT and Logic. I was having the same debate between the two and came across an interview with a successful producer who said he uses both and switches from one to the other several times during the production process - the initial creative work is done in Logic with the benefit of the awesome built-in instruments and intuitive MIDI sequencing, and then everything goes to PT for audio tracking and editing, then back to Logic for more creative work, then back to PT for additional audio work and mixdown. This workflow has proven to work quite well for me, too.

Logic is really a brilliant program - it's very intuitive and works very well for those for whom the artistic/creative flow is very important. Amazing sounds can be extracted from the built-in instruments and the effects included are also incredibly useful. I'm a huge fan of the SpaceDesigner reverb, and I've been able to make some incredibly real-sounding drum parts using the EXS24 sampler's built-in kits.

And i have to say - as a former PC user who switched to Mac, I will never go back. No, macs are not invincible nor do they never crash, but in the year and a half since I got my MB Pro, I haven't spent any time whatsoever thinking about viruses or spyware (except reflecting on how I've never gotten them), and crashes are FAR less frequent, like maybe 2% as much. Also, for the musician who may be good with computers but doesn't want to violently cut off the creative flow by reading about DLL's and updating drivers every three days, one of the most beautiful things about Macs is that 99% of the time, when you plug a new gadget into the USB or firewire port, it works immediately!

Andy W · Post by **Andy W** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:11 pm

If you like, I could post up a mix that I did a while ago.
I made the mix, then bounced it, in Cubase, Logic, Sonar, DP, PT LE and PT HD.
All the mixes where the exact same plugs, same levels, same automations. This is purely a back end test, and the song was originally tracked with PT HD, but it can put it out there and lets your ears decide what you like listening to best.
But which ever way you go, dont forget the front end. If it doesn't sound any good on the way in your already loosing the battle.
Spend your time getting a good song great, getting a great sound amazing, then let your DAW be the vessel for translating that.
What software you use shouldn't be such a headache, pick something that is easy for you to use because in the end that is the one that you will do your best work on.
Having millions of features or the best sounding mix buss isn't going to help you if you are battling the program and can't get the thing to do what you want it to do, all that is just going to lead to are computer monitors being thrown out the window and CDs never actually being finished.

eyvindur · Post by **eyvindur** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:43 am

The sound quality is pretty much the same in every single DAW there is. They all support 24/96, and digital audio is digital audio. The only thing that matters is hardware. And Digidesign sure has put some crappy hardware out there.

I love PT however. I've worked with several other DAWs in the past, including Cubase, Vegas and others, and PT is my personal preference when it comes to interface and especially editing options. But when it came to selecting hardware I steered well clear of those crappy Digidesign preamps. Instead I went with M-Audio, who make excellent preamps, and my recordings never sounded better. My mixes sound awesome with the included dynamics and EQ (although I had to buy a new reverb - the one that came with the software absolutely stunk).

I think that software rivalry is absolutely pointless. They all have their pros and cons. The reason I checked out PT in the first place was the industry standard thing. I've worked with several audio engineers through the years, and every single one told me to go with PT and nothing else. That is probably partly related to the fact that no single Icelandic studio uses anything else, at least not to my knowledge. But that doesn't make other DAWs any worse for the wear. The obvious reason for pro studios to use PT is of course the DSP technology, although that's available for VST plugins nowadays. I still plan on using PT in the future, hopefully buying TDM someday.

Well, that's my input...

Drumdrumdrumdrum · Post by **Drumdrumdrumdrum** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:50 pm

WOW!!! This thread has been going for years. It seems that not a lot has changed, as far as comparisons go, since this thread was started.

I have to disagree. All DAW's do not all 'sound' pretty much the same.

Someone mentioned how PT HD treats the 'sound' in a certain way and that is what you pay for. Most people may not notice much difference but when you get use to driving an expensive car you really notice it when you go BACK to drive an average 'good' car.

I think the general consensus is that PT LE is not 'Pro Tools'. Just about any other DAW is better then PT LE.

If you want to compete against the big boys in there F1's you got to have an F1.

PT HD is the best we have available. Sorry, but i have to say end of story! Until someone comes up with something better, and it will cost $10,000+ too.

I will continue to use my Logic until I have the $$$ for PT HD. I'm very happy with Logic.

Padraig · Post by **Padraig** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:56 pm

Our studio has been in the planning for nearly two years now. In the beginning we were plumping for the HD system, and we could afford it well within our budget. However, we have decided to move away from Digidesign hardware in favour of third-party interfaces and preamps that weren't compatible with the ProTools system. We didn't believe we should have to pay £10,000 for a system, when we could set one up that sounded just as good for under £5000.

In our case, it made more financial sense to make the jump to Logic. However, that said, we will still use ProTools for mastering at the very least. There's every chance that for certain projects we may even take all of the audio from Logic and import it into a ProTools session if we find that we have to mix in an environment we're more familiar with.

I guess it comes down to personal preference, as well as how much you're willing to spend... or if you're willing to spend more money just to use the defacto standard.

John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Pro Tools or Logic ???

Please give me a break..re PCs