Hi, Im building this bass trap:
http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/basstrap.htm
I hope someone here is familiar with it or can help me with the following questions:
Im in the middle of making your bass traps with a few slight modifications. Its 28cms inner and about 32-36cms once its completed I think. Just finished the frame work stage.
1- Do you have to use fibreglass, can you use rockwool or mineral wool batts instead to make these bass traps.
2- I have only 50mm thick fibreglass, noise control batts by Eco Pink from Australia, so I'm wrapping 3 of them around the bass tube frame to get 150mm thickness, is that OK. Will I get the same results as getting a 150mm to start with.
3- What is the compression ratio of this thickness. I am compressing 150mm to 40-45mm, is that too much to the point it will reflect some of the bass frequencies.
4- I am using MDF wood instead of Plywood, is that better or worse or it doesnt matter for bass traps.
5- I used mesh fencing. Its 25mm X 25mm square holes. Its 2 to 2.5mm thick wire and it was really difficult to get a round circle, but managed to get an acceptable one for frame work. It is very sturdy, so I'm using chicken wire on the outer fence wrapping to compress the fibreglass batts inside. I was thinking maybe I should have just used Aviator, bird fencing which is 1.5 mm thick but shapeable and easy to manage and used it for both inner and outer framing to make it sturdy, but your description on how to build it using hog wire really does not click with Australian supplies or availability. So I hope my version is good enough. You should have said what thickness the wire should be and what metal is it comparable to, like its as thick and flexible as 2mm coathanger wire, etc. for example.
6- in regards to making 1/2 reflective and the other half absorbent bass traps. What is the purpose of that. Is that to stop the bass from escaping to the other side of the bass trap. What are the benefits of it. Will thick black plastic garbage bags or wooden floor underlays do. What is the type of material am I looking at for this reflective side, does it really matter.
7- Also since I am using metal frame work, will that cause high pitch metal resonance of some sort when being used?
8- Also, do bass traps get hot inside. Im using cable ties and speaker wiring to hold the frame work together. Does it get that hot inside that it will melt inside?
9- Also how about if I use a mixture of both rockwool and fibreglass, lets say, 88mm thick rockwool on the inside and 50mm fibreglass on top of that. Will that be better than using 150 mm thick fibreglass for the bass trap.
10- is rockwool or fibreglass better for building bass traps, these types and or most types.
Ta
Questions in regards to building this bass trap? URGENT
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Odeo
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- Location: Australia
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knightfly
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
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Im in the middle of making your bass traps with a few slight modifications. Its 28cms inner and about 32-36cms once its completed I think. Just finished the frame work stage.
These aren't MY bass traps; I'm assuming this is a "cut and paste" plea for help anywhere you can get it. I'll give it a shot...
First of all, these are a DIY attempt at this so that should explain a bit about their function.
1- Do you have to use fibreglass, can you use rockwool or mineral wool batts instead to make these bass traps.
Any absorbent (open-celled) will work, but higher density, up to about 5 or 6 Pounds per Cubic Foot (80-96 kG per cubic meter) will absorb more low bass. Nearly any rockwool or rigid fiberglass will work, as long as you can shape it. What you do NOT want is any insulation product you can't BLOW through, or one that's so stiff that your "cylinder" ends up looking more like a "cube" -
2- I have only 50mm thick fibreglass, noise control batts by Eco Pink from Australia, so I'm wrapping 3 of them around the bass tube frame to get 150mm thickness, is that OK. Will I get the same results as getting a 150mm to start with.
Yes, as long as they don't include any paper covering or foil; you want only the absorbent for the full depth of the trap, with the exception of the "half wrap" plastic.
3- What is the compression ratio of this thickness. I am compressing 150mm to 40-45mm, is that too much to the point it will reflect some of the bass frequencies.
You can't compress standard fiberglass insulation too much; its typical density is around .8 to 1 PCF, the rigid fiberglass is typically 3 to 6 PCF for ideal absorption characteristics; so any compression you accomplish will be fine, the more the merrier.
4- I am using MDF wood instead of Plywood, is that better or worse or it doesnt matter for bass traps.
Doesn't matter - in fact, the heavier weight may make the traps more stable.
5- I used mesh fencing. Its 25mm X 25mm square holes. Its 2 to 2.5mm thick wire and it was really difficult to get a round circle, but managed to get an acceptable one for frame work. It is very sturdy, so I'm using chicken wire on the outer fence wrapping to compress the fibreglass batts inside. I was thinking maybe I should have just used Aviator, bird fencing which is 1.5 mm thick but shapeable and easy to manage and used it for both inner and outer framing to make it sturdy, but your description on how to build it using hog wire really does not click with Australian supplies or availability. So I hope my version is good enough. You should have said what thickness the wire should be and what metal is it comparable to, like its as thick and flexible as 2mm coathanger wire, etc. for example.
Again, this isn't MY project; I vaguely remember suggesting hog wire in an answer on this subject about 3 or 4 THOUSAND post ago; at that time, I'd no feel for materials available outside the US.
6- in regards to making 1/2 reflective and the other half absorbent bass traps. What is the purpose of that. Is that to stop the bass from escaping to the other side of the bass trap. What are the benefits of it. Will thick black plastic garbage bags or wooden floor underlays do. What is the type of material am I looking at for this reflective side, does it really matter.
Check the Acoustic Sciences link above, they go into that a bit. I'd stay with plastic, anywhere from garbage bag (around .01mm) to construction vapor barrier plastic (around .15mm) - if your room is quite bright sounding, you can leave this off entirely (or rotate the traps so the plastic is toward the corner)
7- Also since I am using metal frame work, will that cause high pitch metal resonance of some sort when being used?
Not likely; you will have so much fiberglass in contact with ALL the mesh, it should be totally damped.
8- Also, do bass traps get hot inside. Im using cable ties and speaker wiring to hold the frame work together. Does it get that hot inside that it will melt inside?
We only wish; the heat (nearly imaginary amount) is due to the fibers of the insulation restricting the flow of air as the bass wave tries to get through (and back through) the fiberglass - whatever sound energy is converted to heat, doesn't make it back into the room. In actual use, I would think you'd need really sophisticated metrology to detect the rise in temperature.
9- Also how about if I use a mixture of both rockwool and fibreglass, lets say, 88mm thick rockwool on the inside and 50mm fibreglass on top of that. Will that be better than using 150 mm thick fibreglass for the bass trap.
It isn't the material, so much as the density and porous qualities. Don't use closed cell foam - open-celled foam will do SOME absorption, but higher density fiberglass OR rockwool will do more.
10- is rockwool or fibreglass better for building bass traps, these types and or most types.
Depends on the product; some of these are stiffer and more unwieldy to work with. Some of the higher density insulation boards are so stiff you would need to cut them at compound angles and glue them together like an expensive wooden fishing rod case in order to get close to a ROUND shape.
If you're after RESULTS, you would probably do better just to lean some thick rockwool batts up across all your corners - 1 meter wide by 100mm thick batts across all your corners will do quite a bit more for evening out your room response than stacking these "tube trap wannabe's" in the corners. Although for some uses having the "half-reflector" side to give high frequency diffusion might be handy... Steve
These aren't MY bass traps; I'm assuming this is a "cut and paste" plea for help anywhere you can get it. I'll give it a shot...
First of all, these are a DIY attempt at this so that should explain a bit about their function.
1- Do you have to use fibreglass, can you use rockwool or mineral wool batts instead to make these bass traps.
Any absorbent (open-celled) will work, but higher density, up to about 5 or 6 Pounds per Cubic Foot (80-96 kG per cubic meter) will absorb more low bass. Nearly any rockwool or rigid fiberglass will work, as long as you can shape it. What you do NOT want is any insulation product you can't BLOW through, or one that's so stiff that your "cylinder" ends up looking more like a "cube" -
2- I have only 50mm thick fibreglass, noise control batts by Eco Pink from Australia, so I'm wrapping 3 of them around the bass tube frame to get 150mm thickness, is that OK. Will I get the same results as getting a 150mm to start with.
Yes, as long as they don't include any paper covering or foil; you want only the absorbent for the full depth of the trap, with the exception of the "half wrap" plastic.
3- What is the compression ratio of this thickness. I am compressing 150mm to 40-45mm, is that too much to the point it will reflect some of the bass frequencies.
You can't compress standard fiberglass insulation too much; its typical density is around .8 to 1 PCF, the rigid fiberglass is typically 3 to 6 PCF for ideal absorption characteristics; so any compression you accomplish will be fine, the more the merrier.
4- I am using MDF wood instead of Plywood, is that better or worse or it doesnt matter for bass traps.
Doesn't matter - in fact, the heavier weight may make the traps more stable.
5- I used mesh fencing. Its 25mm X 25mm square holes. Its 2 to 2.5mm thick wire and it was really difficult to get a round circle, but managed to get an acceptable one for frame work. It is very sturdy, so I'm using chicken wire on the outer fence wrapping to compress the fibreglass batts inside. I was thinking maybe I should have just used Aviator, bird fencing which is 1.5 mm thick but shapeable and easy to manage and used it for both inner and outer framing to make it sturdy, but your description on how to build it using hog wire really does not click with Australian supplies or availability. So I hope my version is good enough. You should have said what thickness the wire should be and what metal is it comparable to, like its as thick and flexible as 2mm coathanger wire, etc. for example.
Again, this isn't MY project; I vaguely remember suggesting hog wire in an answer on this subject about 3 or 4 THOUSAND post ago; at that time, I'd no feel for materials available outside the US.
6- in regards to making 1/2 reflective and the other half absorbent bass traps. What is the purpose of that. Is that to stop the bass from escaping to the other side of the bass trap. What are the benefits of it. Will thick black plastic garbage bags or wooden floor underlays do. What is the type of material am I looking at for this reflective side, does it really matter.
Check the Acoustic Sciences link above, they go into that a bit. I'd stay with plastic, anywhere from garbage bag (around .01mm) to construction vapor barrier plastic (around .15mm) - if your room is quite bright sounding, you can leave this off entirely (or rotate the traps so the plastic is toward the corner)
7- Also since I am using metal frame work, will that cause high pitch metal resonance of some sort when being used?
Not likely; you will have so much fiberglass in contact with ALL the mesh, it should be totally damped.
8- Also, do bass traps get hot inside. Im using cable ties and speaker wiring to hold the frame work together. Does it get that hot inside that it will melt inside?
We only wish; the heat (nearly imaginary amount) is due to the fibers of the insulation restricting the flow of air as the bass wave tries to get through (and back through) the fiberglass - whatever sound energy is converted to heat, doesn't make it back into the room. In actual use, I would think you'd need really sophisticated metrology to detect the rise in temperature.
9- Also how about if I use a mixture of both rockwool and fibreglass, lets say, 88mm thick rockwool on the inside and 50mm fibreglass on top of that. Will that be better than using 150 mm thick fibreglass for the bass trap.
It isn't the material, so much as the density and porous qualities. Don't use closed cell foam - open-celled foam will do SOME absorption, but higher density fiberglass OR rockwool will do more.
10- is rockwool or fibreglass better for building bass traps, these types and or most types.
Depends on the product; some of these are stiffer and more unwieldy to work with. Some of the higher density insulation boards are so stiff you would need to cut them at compound angles and glue them together like an expensive wooden fishing rod case in order to get close to a ROUND shape.
If you're after RESULTS, you would probably do better just to lean some thick rockwool batts up across all your corners - 1 meter wide by 100mm thick batts across all your corners will do quite a bit more for evening out your room response than stacking these "tube trap wannabe's" in the corners. Although for some uses having the "half-reflector" side to give high frequency diffusion might be handy... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
- Anyone know any designs of sound panels that involve cane-ite material(mineral wood). I got a bundle from a factory closing down and apparently that materials is used for making sound proofing but do not know how it's used. I was going to use it as a denser form of rockwool and use it as a panel or maybe resonator. Anyone know of any design to use these for sound proofing.
I have these materials, if any of you experts know on how I can utilise it to make a panel or several types of panels, please do so.
- sonex 50 and 100mm
- mdf 9mm and 18mm
- pine wood 2 X 4
- cane-ite board(http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Product/ ... 27,00.html)
- standard pegboard
- plywood 3mm & 5mm
- rockwool 88mm
- Acoustic Fibreglass batts 50mm
- polyester batting, 15mm and 50mm
- hessian (burlap)
- silicon sealant
- liquid nails
- mesh fencing, 1.25 mm thick with 25mm X 25mm square gaps
Aim is to make wide absorption as low as I can go since that is the most hardest. Maybe 60-120hz would be good as the main objective which can spread to the higher frequencies. I also have trouble judging the lows on music.
I have a 4 X 6meter room with a 2.7 meter window on the 4m side and a 2.4m 2 door entrance on the other 4meter side and a 2.7 meter sliding door on the 6 meter side. It's 9 foot high ceilings. Thats the room I am using, but I am not going to build a room within a room, just reshaping or adding sound absorbants.
Ta
I have these materials, if any of you experts know on how I can utilise it to make a panel or several types of panels, please do so.
- sonex 50 and 100mm
- mdf 9mm and 18mm
- pine wood 2 X 4
- cane-ite board(http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Product/ ... 27,00.html)
- standard pegboard
- plywood 3mm & 5mm
- rockwool 88mm
- Acoustic Fibreglass batts 50mm
- polyester batting, 15mm and 50mm
- hessian (burlap)
- silicon sealant
- liquid nails
- mesh fencing, 1.25 mm thick with 25mm X 25mm square gaps
Aim is to make wide absorption as low as I can go since that is the most hardest. Maybe 60-120hz would be good as the main objective which can spread to the higher frequencies. I also have trouble judging the lows on music.
I have a 4 X 6meter room with a 2.7 meter window on the 4m side and a 2.4m 2 door entrance on the other 4meter side and a 2.7 meter sliding door on the 6 meter side. It's 9 foot high ceilings. Thats the room I am using, but I am not going to build a room within a room, just reshaping or adding sound absorbants.
Ta
Last edited by Odeo on Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
I'm not familiar with the term "cane-ite material(mineral wood)" so can't recommend how to use it. Got a link?
Also, you need to include Height when describing a room; this has every bit as much effect on sound as the other two dimensions.
Also, please follow ALL the guidelines here, including the request to update your profile LOCATION.
You may find more info on acoustic treatments here -
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... stics2.htm
And here -
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=8
HTH... Steve
Also, you need to include Height when describing a room; this has every bit as much effect on sound as the other two dimensions.
Also, please follow ALL the guidelines here, including the request to update your profile LOCATION.
You may find more info on acoustic treatments here -
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_mate ... stics2.htm
And here -
http://forum.studiotips.com/viewforum.php?f=8
HTH... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
This is what cane-ite is http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Product/ ... 27,00.html
Also the cieling is 9 foot tall.
I'll fix my details up soon, I'm just flat out buiding and reading as much info as I can. I just quickly registered cause that's the only way to post anything up.
My main objective is to build some low absorption bass traps with the materials I have. As for layout, I will post up a drawing once I have time. Which will include what furniture I have to place inside the room. My main concern is building the low absorption bass traps first. Atleast 2 tube ones and 4 panels. To cover corners and problem areas. I have nearly finished the tube ones, and are about to pursue the panel ones.
Can someone help with the design utilising my materials, cause I do not want to waste my materials on a poorly designed bass trap panel.
Ta
Also the cieling is 9 foot tall.
I'll fix my details up soon, I'm just flat out buiding and reading as much info as I can. I just quickly registered cause that's the only way to post anything up.
My main objective is to build some low absorption bass traps with the materials I have. As for layout, I will post up a drawing once I have time. Which will include what furniture I have to place inside the room. My main concern is building the low absorption bass traps first. Atleast 2 tube ones and 4 panels. To cover corners and problem areas. I have nearly finished the tube ones, and are about to pursue the panel ones.
Can someone help with the design utilising my materials, cause I do not want to waste my materials on a poorly designed bass trap panel.
Ta
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AVare
- Confused, but not senile yet
- Posts: 2336
- Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 1:56 pm
- Location: Hanilton, Ontario, Canada
From the forum guidelines:
How are we supposed to help you without even that (in the quote above) knowledge?
Trying to help;
Adnre
Edit your profile to include your location. This is very important, because this is a worldwide resource, and as such, material costs and availability vary widely. For example, masonry is cheaper than gypsum in some parts of the globe, wheres it the exact opposite in other regions.
How are we supposed to help you without even that (in the quote above) knowledge?
Trying to help;
Adnre
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Your room dimensions give fairly good modal distribution overall, but there will likely be a bit of buildup at 85, 125, and 171 hZ due to too-closely spaced axial modes AND some reinforcing Tangential modes in those ranges; therefore those would be the three frequencies I'd try to target with traps.
I get the impression, however, that you're maybe getting the cart before the horse; have you actually LISTENED to music within the room, or TESTED the response in any way? That should come first, or you WILL be taking a strong chance of wasting time AND materials.
That said, here's some thoughts; if you build a pair of panel traps centered at 85 hZ, these should be placed either dead center of the short wall on both ends, or at 1/3 or 2/3 of the LONG wall on either side - this is because panel traps work on sound PRESSURE, not VELOCITY; those would be the points where the most SPL would exist along the walls of the room, so that's where the traps should go for best effect.
Using your 5 mm plywood (just over 3/16") you would build traps (at least 3 x 4 feet each, preferably larger) with an inside depth between the 5mm ply and the HEAVY back panel (use your 18mm MDF) of 7-1/2" - I would use your 1" mesh wire to keep the 88mm rockwool away from the 5mm front panel by 1/4" to 1/2" (6-12mm) - you do NOT want either the wire OR the insulation touching this panel, it MUST be allowed to vibrate freely.
Use the silicone sealant around the edges of the front panel, as well as to seal the rest of the box as you go; you will want to RIP your 2x4 pine into cleats to mount the front, sides and back to each other more strongly - see this page for ideas on cleats; what John called 2x1 in some of the drawings.
To summarize - back and sides of 18mm MDF, face of 5mm ply, cleats to screw/glue the pieces together ripped from the 2z4 stock, actual inside depth total of 7.5" (190mm), 88mm rockwool held 6-12mm away from the FRONT panel, all joints sealed with silicone.
For the 125 hZ traps, total inside depth of 3.5" (90mm) and use the 50mm fiberglass batts, everything else same as the 85 hZ traps.
For the 175 hZ traps, total inside depth of 2.7" (70mm), 3mm front panel, 50mm fiberglass batts against the REAR panel; if these are rigid, they could just be glued/impaled, otherwise use more of the 1x1 mesh wire to make sure nothing touches the front panel.
125 hZ traps located at 1/3, 2/3 of the SHORT wall - at those positions, they will be most effective CENTERED between floor and ceiling.
175 hZ traps - along the short wall at 25, 50, 75% of the distance.
All this being said, before I built ANYTHING I would first listen to the room and if possible test the response; then, I would place all of your 88mm rockwool diagonally across ALL corners of the room and listen/test - this may be all you need to do, since overall the modes are fairly well distributed.
If you just want to build something instead of actually FIXING the REAL problems, those directions above won't get you into too much trouble; I'm just trying to make things easier for you... Steve
I get the impression, however, that you're maybe getting the cart before the horse; have you actually LISTENED to music within the room, or TESTED the response in any way? That should come first, or you WILL be taking a strong chance of wasting time AND materials.
That said, here's some thoughts; if you build a pair of panel traps centered at 85 hZ, these should be placed either dead center of the short wall on both ends, or at 1/3 or 2/3 of the LONG wall on either side - this is because panel traps work on sound PRESSURE, not VELOCITY; those would be the points where the most SPL would exist along the walls of the room, so that's where the traps should go for best effect.
Using your 5 mm plywood (just over 3/16") you would build traps (at least 3 x 4 feet each, preferably larger) with an inside depth between the 5mm ply and the HEAVY back panel (use your 18mm MDF) of 7-1/2" - I would use your 1" mesh wire to keep the 88mm rockwool away from the 5mm front panel by 1/4" to 1/2" (6-12mm) - you do NOT want either the wire OR the insulation touching this panel, it MUST be allowed to vibrate freely.
Use the silicone sealant around the edges of the front panel, as well as to seal the rest of the box as you go; you will want to RIP your 2x4 pine into cleats to mount the front, sides and back to each other more strongly - see this page for ideas on cleats; what John called 2x1 in some of the drawings.
To summarize - back and sides of 18mm MDF, face of 5mm ply, cleats to screw/glue the pieces together ripped from the 2z4 stock, actual inside depth total of 7.5" (190mm), 88mm rockwool held 6-12mm away from the FRONT panel, all joints sealed with silicone.
For the 125 hZ traps, total inside depth of 3.5" (90mm) and use the 50mm fiberglass batts, everything else same as the 85 hZ traps.
For the 175 hZ traps, total inside depth of 2.7" (70mm), 3mm front panel, 50mm fiberglass batts against the REAR panel; if these are rigid, they could just be glued/impaled, otherwise use more of the 1x1 mesh wire to make sure nothing touches the front panel.
125 hZ traps located at 1/3, 2/3 of the SHORT wall - at those positions, they will be most effective CENTERED between floor and ceiling.
175 hZ traps - along the short wall at 25, 50, 75% of the distance.
All this being said, before I built ANYTHING I would first listen to the room and if possible test the response; then, I would place all of your 88mm rockwool diagonally across ALL corners of the room and listen/test - this may be all you need to do, since overall the modes are fairly well distributed.
If you just want to build something instead of actually FIXING the REAL problems, those directions above won't get you into too much trouble; I'm just trying to make things easier for you... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
Thanks for the reply : )
I will try that, but is there any way of incorporating the cane-ite material into it? Is cane-ite usable?
I was going to build this:
Build a 60cm wide X 120cm pine frame or 60cm X 140cm or maybe bigger like 120cm to 240cm, working from the back of the panel -> 9mm MDF back support -> 90mm rockwool -> 100mm airgap -> thin sheet of plywood or ivory cane-ite (refer to http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Product/ ... 27,00.html ) --> 50 or 100mm fibreglass -> polyester batting (maybe to hold the fibres) -> 10mm airgap -> 5-9mm perforated or pegboard melamine sheet -> cloth to cover the panel (maybe)
Will this work as a bass absorbent panel? What frequencies do you think I'l get? What would I need to modify to this design to make it work well for low frequencies. I designed this using the design principle of:
- this one big panel is equivalent to like putting two panels on top of each other against the wall, basically two different types of panels in one panel
- different density and materials will weakin the sound as it travels through the panel I made
- Using the plywood, cane-ite or pegboards as resonators for the panel
- Air gaps in between to allow for better absorption.
Please give me your input if this will be a waste of time. I was going to put Sonex on top of the pegboard instead of the cloth. Think of this design like a hamburger, I am trying to make one with the lot with all the ingredients I've been given.
Ta
I will try that, but is there any way of incorporating the cane-ite material into it? Is cane-ite usable?
I was going to build this:
Build a 60cm wide X 120cm pine frame or 60cm X 140cm or maybe bigger like 120cm to 240cm, working from the back of the panel -> 9mm MDF back support -> 90mm rockwool -> 100mm airgap -> thin sheet of plywood or ivory cane-ite (refer to http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Product/ ... 27,00.html ) --> 50 or 100mm fibreglass -> polyester batting (maybe to hold the fibres) -> 10mm airgap -> 5-9mm perforated or pegboard melamine sheet -> cloth to cover the panel (maybe)
Will this work as a bass absorbent panel? What frequencies do you think I'l get? What would I need to modify to this design to make it work well for low frequencies. I designed this using the design principle of:
- this one big panel is equivalent to like putting two panels on top of each other against the wall, basically two different types of panels in one panel
- different density and materials will weakin the sound as it travels through the panel I made
- Using the plywood, cane-ite or pegboards as resonators for the panel
- Air gaps in between to allow for better absorption.
Please give me your input if this will be a waste of time. I was going to put Sonex on top of the pegboard instead of the cloth. Think of this design like a hamburger, I am trying to make one with the lot with all the ingredients I've been given.
Ta
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
First, I looked at every link on the site for ANY acoustic properties; none given. The stuff sounds to me like it's similar to Celotex or Homosote.
Second, when you build any type trap generally the back is MUCH more solid; otherwise the thing is more likely to act as a resonator, and very likely at frequencies you do NOT want to resonate.
Third, your "sandwich" example has so many different things going on that I would have NO WAY of guessing what the panel would do; my only option would be to either build it and test it in the room, or forget it.
If my guess is correct about the stuff being similar to Celotex, it would have some bass absorption qualities - but not as good as rigid insulation board over an air gap... Steve
Second, when you build any type trap generally the back is MUCH more solid; otherwise the thing is more likely to act as a resonator, and very likely at frequencies you do NOT want to resonate.
Third, your "sandwich" example has so many different things going on that I would have NO WAY of guessing what the panel would do; my only option would be to either build it and test it in the room, or forget it.
If my guess is correct about the stuff being similar to Celotex, it would have some bass absorption qualities - but not as good as rigid insulation board over an air gap... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
Knightfly
- Yes, cane-ite apparently is similar to homosote.
- I have been reading up many on this site and other sites about this acoustic stuff.
How bout if I use the cane-ite and an air gap, is that better than rigid and an airgap?
- Do sandwiches work better than just cheese on bread, if you get my analogy?
- Yes, cane-ite apparently is similar to homosote.
- I have been reading up many on this site and other sites about this acoustic stuff.
How bout if I use the cane-ite and an air gap, is that better than rigid and an airgap?
- Do sandwiches work better than just cheese on bread, if you get my analogy?
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
Apparently you would rather use this cane-ite stuff than actually do something that will work - I spent quite some time calculating what WILL work for you, using the materials you listed. I don't KNOW what cane-ite will do, but I do know it's NOT something that's normally done. If you MUST use the stuff, then consider it an EXPERIMENT, and by all means document EXACTLY what the room was like BEFORE and AFTER, and report back on your findings; this will require some test software and an omni mic, and some research;
http://www.etfacoustic.com/
is a good place to start... Steve
http://www.etfacoustic.com/
is a good place to start... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
It's not I dont want to make something thats proven to work, its just I have that much cane-ite, it be a shame not to use it, if its possible to use. There must be someone out there whos done the sandwich method, and made it work.
I will still be making those other types but I really want to maximise use of my materials. I have been reading and reading, and yes, it may be an experiment thing to do and may or may not work, but Id like to know if someone has tried it before me and made it work or someone whod know theoretically whether what I am attempting can work, but need to be modified to do so. That way I make it right!
There must be some theorosist out on this forum, that can use calculations to say, these materials you have, youll need to make them like this, to work.
I appreciate all input. this will help me find a suitable design that will work with the materials I have and maximise it's use.
Ta
I will still be making those other types but I really want to maximise use of my materials. I have been reading and reading, and yes, it may be an experiment thing to do and may or may not work, but Id like to know if someone has tried it before me and made it work or someone whod know theoretically whether what I am attempting can work, but need to be modified to do so. That way I make it right!
There must be some theorosist out on this forum, that can use calculations to say, these materials you have, youll need to make them like this, to work.
I appreciate all input. this will help me find a suitable design that will work with the materials I have and maximise it's use.
Ta
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knightfly
- Senior Member
- Posts: 6976
- Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
- Location: West Coast, USA
If the cane-ite is VERY close to Celotex, the absorbence isn't much to brag about; standard Celotex has .16 absorption @ 125 hZ, peaks at .24 @ 500 hZ, and stays at .22 up to 4 kHz; I suppose if you were to layer 3-4 of those in front of a fairly deep air gap you would get some fairly good LF absorption, although the high end wouldn't improve much (physics of HF absorption don't change much with depth)
You could try just placing 3-4 panels (layered) across some of your corners and see how much they help even out the bass response - if it works well, add some frames for aesthetics (or not) ... Steve
You could try just placing 3-4 panels (layered) across some of your corners and see how much they help even out the bass response - if it works well, add some frames for aesthetics (or not) ... Steve
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Odeo
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 11:52 am
- Location: Australia
But how about the theory that if sound passes thu different densities and materials, it will help absorb the sound. Isn't a sandwich possible to help absord proven sound absorption designs that work or will it interfere with how it works.
Like for example, a bass trap that uses fibreglass and a 100mm airgap. Couldnt the addition of canite after the 100mm airgap and then another 50mm airgap then 90mm rockwool, then the 18mm thick MDF backing make the bass trap even better at absorbing the wider frequencies.
Someone out there must have made a sandwich before. Can someone who actually has panels, put this to the test and put two traps together to make one and see whether it works? What are the results.
I dont have traps so I can't do it.
Ta
Like for example, a bass trap that uses fibreglass and a 100mm airgap. Couldnt the addition of canite after the 100mm airgap and then another 50mm airgap then 90mm rockwool, then the 18mm thick MDF backing make the bass trap even better at absorbing the wider frequencies.
Someone out there must have made a sandwich before. Can someone who actually has panels, put this to the test and put two traps together to make one and see whether it works? What are the results.
I dont have traps so I can't do it.
Ta