John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

What a cool forum.

Congratulations!

I will be sure to put it in the Gearslutz.com 'links' list!

RE GLASS BRICKS.

I have just acquired the office space above my tiny studio so I may become a frequent visitor over the coming months...!!!!

The upstairs has a separate door, and will be my 'whole band tracking room'. There IS natural light via 2 windows (both have that ugly 'wire mesh' security glass and one is barred heavily like a prison cell)

I simply can't trust musicians to shut windows before takes, they WILL forget and the whole neighborhood will get a) pissed off b) quickly learn that there is a recording studio in the building (both undesirable events)

I will have air con, and am just ruminating about the way to get fresh air i/o...

The best sound proofing would be to simply brick up the windows.... That's what was done downstairs and it worked fine...

But it would be a shame to loose the light that comes through the upstairs windows..

So....

Who here has had a hand to those now trendy glass bricks? The ones I mean are about 8 inches square...

Here's a website that shows them...

http://www.atkhomeimprovements.co.uk/1clear.htm

So whatcha think?

If I have a sealed heavy window and these bricks filling up the 6 inch window sill (air-tight) will it keep live kit drummer noise from escaping?

Thanks a lot folks!

Jules - if I remember correctly these glass bricks are hollow?? I searched for an stc rating on them but couldn't find one. I don't see why they wouldn't have a decent STC rating plus they would also act as diffusors because of their uneven surface.

cheers
john

http://www.glassbrickcompany.com.au/pag ... nical.html

says its about 40dB at 500 Hz for these blocks.

-lee-

Hey Jules, welcome to the site, hope we can help with your new digs...

Say, if the glass blocks are 40 dB at 500, you can bet they'll be down to maybe 25-30 at kick drum freq's - what kind of construction are the rest of your walls/ceiling/roof, etc? (Weakest link, and all that) - Also, are you planning/have room for, a separate drum booth? That could help the glass blocks contain the melee - maybe use the drum booth as "plan b" if the blocks don't quite get the job done... Steve

Cool!

Thanks for the responces!

I was just just going to report my similar findings on the sound blocking qualities...

40db

OK a few points here.

This must be the drum room..

Neither window has ever acted or can act as fire exit, one is barred, both have security 'wire mesh' windows with opening panes too small for anyone but a cat to escape through)

I will be filling up the inside window sill area with these blocks (if I use them)

That will leave the following between the drumer and the outside world:

1 x wall of 40 db reducing glass blocks (give or take a bit for the silicon mortar)

1 x air gap of 4 inches (containing steel bars BTW)

1 x heavy 'wire mesh' security window (which I will have sealed up for good with silicon around opening top pane before the glassbricks go in)

------------------------

Most encoraging to me perhaps, is the air gap.....The seal between the outside window and the glass bricks will be airtight.

So......

Thick window + airtight 4 inch gap + 40db glass brick with 40db attenuation at 500hz

Wadda ya think now?

Thanks

Dunno for sure, Jules - I've not used glass bricks, but what concerns me it that they are HOLLOW - this means that you already have (effectively) two centers of mass separated by air, just with the bricks - adding a second air space and a third center of mass (the outer window) might act like a triple leaf wall, which is less effective than the same total amount of mass distributed between only TWO leaves with only ONE air space.

I doubt the performance would be worse than just the bricks, but it probably wouldn't be a lot better. This is just a SWAG (Scientific, Wild-Assed Guess) but I'd think maybe 5-6 dB better than just the bricks.

According to charts in Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics, if you have 40 dB TL at 500 hZ, you'll get about 23-25 dB at 50 hZ. Add some for the outer glass, and you're probably looking at about 30-35 dB isolation for kick drum, better for toms/cymbals, etc.

Sooo, if you've got a metal-head on the skins and someone's right outside the window, they'll probably get about 75 dB SPL from the kick. Inverse square law will drop that level by 6 dB for each doubling of the distance, so unless someone could hover outside that upstairs window, at the ground you would get maybe 60 dB. That could change for the worse if you have much structure-borne noise - that's why I asked about the actual construction of the walls...

I hate to sound wishy-washy, but there are too many variables in this stuff that sometimes get overlooked, for the answers to be very cut-and-dried.

As usual, if you build this and it doesn't work, it's all John's fault - I only stopped by for the free popcorn, and he put me to work... Steve

Hmmm

I cant decide if I should cut the bars off the widow and have 2 layers of glass bricks or leave em and have just one...

Favorite would be for folks to look up to a window and hear nothing at all from it....

Hmmmmm....

The place will be alarmed, if someone magages to spend 10 mins smashing through the wire glass while standing on top of a ladder in ful view of residences , then smashes out all the glass bricks, they will set the alarm off the minuite they step into the premisis.

The bars are just a cool visual deterent for dumb junkies etc...

Hmmmmmmm

I see the bars as a deterent from amateur burglars and repairs afterwards..

Opinions?

I have just put a block wall in the middle of my room within a room wall.
The wall is plaster 2 x plasterboard stud wall rockwool and then 6inch cavity blocks plastered then a 3' gap and original stone wall(my house is over 150 years old;-)

but to take advantage of light there is a 4 layer pane of glass.

a road runs about 6' from the house.
befor the glass blocks i could hear next to nothing not even trucks but now its not as good altough still accectable.

heres a pic but im going to fuertaventura in 6hours for a week so if u have a question ill answer wen i get back.

thanks

My personal favorite is to "fire a couple of warning shots to the head", but of course you're in merrie aulde England - maybe insulate the bars and connect them to the mains (250 volts is a fair deterrent, at least to me)

Seriously, though, I don't think a second layer of glass blocks would be a lot better than the heavy glass that's already there - check this thread out to see why I think that, specifically John's chart posted on Mar 01, and my second post on Mar 17 -

http://www.homer.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopi ... 86&start=0

As far as security is concerned, nothing beats a pair of Rottweilers backed up with a 12-gauge - but even that won't stop an idiot, unless you either let the Rott's eat them for breakfast or empty the 12-gauge, neither of which choices leaves you free to decide where to eat dinner anytime soon, even here in "gun-crazy" USA...

Regardless of how far you're willing to go to protect something, the best way is for it to be invisible and in-audible (which you know, hence the questions)

BTW, you STILL didn't answer my question about the REST of the wall construction - so I still don't know whether all this is a moot point... Steve

Yarzzzzz.....

The "rest of the place"

Well.....

If the roof isnt as thick as the landlord says and or the impact of the kick & the snare after the economic building building work I have set in motion is badly audible enough to piss off neighbours before say 11 pm, then I will not have built my dream cheap drum room and will have built istead;

A room suitable for recording everything else but drums
A 'midi music' programming & vocal over dub studio
A sound proofed large chill out area for rawkus bands
A room that with a bit more cash CAN perhaps turn into a drum room...

In essance my typing isnt up to speed to write up a discriptive of the whole premisis..

The biigest potential sound breach areas are IMHO

The windows
The front door
2 x 'air bricks' (vent bricks with holes)
Fresh air i/o (to be figured out)

There are photos posted up here...

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.p ... eadid=4712

Thinking aloud here, I feel what I may well need is a drum hit impact shell of some (economic) sort...

Like a drum riser...

Anyone had any luck with this product?


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Hmmm having seen the various mortar & mounting instructions on these bricks, I am getting a little disenchanted about them...

I think the word "brick" has led me to belive they will perform a robust job accoustically..

Re thinking now.. thanks folks!

OK I used em... They seem cool and add a GREAT vibe....

Outer layer = existing wired security glass
Middle layer = 1 x pane glass
Final layer on inside of studio = Glass bricks

I am delighted with the light and the fact that passers by cant see a damn thing through em..

I will let you know how they sound soon..

Cool, Jules - Hey, as luck would have it, I live about 50 miles away from the ASC factory in Eugene, Oregon - If I EVER get some time that isn't promised three different places, I would like to tour the place. Their stuff isn't cheap, but the website convinced me that they aren't joking in their design area.

Be sure to let us know how the blocks work out sonically... Steve

Hi,

If you check this stuff out, please advise, I'd like to know what a pro thinks of it.

-Ben