John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi Guys,

Have just signed up to the site my names Dan I'm from Cornwall in England, I been reading through some of the threads on the forum some good info! I thought I would share what I plan on doing and see if there is any potential errors or advise from you pros to get the best outcome possible

I have an existing 100mm thick blockwork construction with 1 block wide piers in the center of the walls for strength and half block wide piers on the corners (please see attached pic to make it easier to visualize).

The floor is 100mm Concrete with DPM no insulation.

The outside is rendered with sand and cement mix, two coats approx 20mm.

The roof construction is a pitched prefab roof trusses at 600mm centers with breathable roofing felt, counter battened with 2x1" timber and fibre cement slate on top. No insulation in roof space.

No Windows on the existing construction & no plans to install one.

No door on the structure at moment just an opening of 2.1m x 0.9m

The dimensions of the internal walls at the widest parts are 4.77m long x 2.5m wide and 2.5m height.

I will be practising my drums in here and possibly jamming with friends occasionally dB levels of 100-110. On left hand side facing door way no neighbours close on opposite side have neighbours house approx 4 meters away.

So my plan is to insulate the roof space first with normal loft insulation 150mm, then 100mm Rockwool R3 in between the trusses and double board on ceiling side with 15mm soundbloc plasterboard with green glue in between.

For the walls I plan to put isolation strip on floor and then studwork 69 x 38mm CLS timber leaving a 25mm air gap and 75mm rockwool R3 insulation batts in between, and double 15mm soundbloc plasterboard on top.

This is where my first major question comes in, do I use green glue in between the sheets or tecsound 50, 70 or 100??
I have been in contact with a soundproofing company in the UK I won't name them incase their advise isn't the best asking about their thoughts on green glue I mentioned that I'm reading a book at moment on building a studio and this was their reply:

"Hi Daniel,



Thanks for your email, I guess the book you are reading may be American as green glue is big over there. We don’t use it at all, it does very little to add to a soundproofing system but they have had extremely good marketing campaigns!



In between our plasterboards we use Tecsound SY100 a much more robust and resilient material 5mm thick adding lots of mass to the wall. The trouble with using green glue between plasterboards is applying what is little more than acoustic sealant,



Getting an uneven covering of unknown thickness often creating gaps or pockets which can create resonance and reduce the effectiveness of the soundproofing system. We try and pride ourselves on supplying the best advice and systems based on solid science



Rather than using products which are all hype with limited substance.



Look forward to seeing your photos and moving your project forward



Kind Regards ********"

So is Green Glue all hype? It seems a lot of people been using it and been around a while, it didn't sit right with me but if that is the case I'm happy to go with tecsound happy to pay a bit more if it is worth it.

Also I'm getting conflicting advice, being a building by trade I've always used resilient channel on ceilings when needed for impact reduction.
Now I was planning on building independant walls but all the soundproofing companies specs seems to be independent walls, genie clips, (or similar) resilient channel, plasterboard, tecsound, plasterboard. Is the putting resilient channel a belt and braces move? When I questioned the guy saying do I still need to do that on an independent stud wall, he said absolutely you don't want the sound vibrating through the studwork and into the structure. Again happy to do it if it will increase the sound reduction but have also heard that sticking resilient channel in can also let more low frequency through the air gap between channel and board.

For the ceiling I am planning on sitting new timbers probabaly 125mmx45mm timbers filled with rockwool RW3, then double soundbloc 15mm board directly on top sandwiched with green glue or tecsound.
Other option is to put genie clips, resilient channel on existing roof trusses and double board?

For the floor I'm thinking a 6mm dpm acoustic rubber underlay and laminate or wood flooring on top?

For the door I'm planning on an FD60 fire door internal and a 1mm thick steel door weather sealed filled with rockwool inside weigh about 80kg?

My last thought at the moment is ventilation was wondering the best way to go about this a passive acoustic air vent and a seperate ducting with an extractor and a baffle box leaving the room in negative air pressure?

Sorry if this is a bit long winded wanted to get as much info out there as possible. Any advise be great and would really appreciate it as I want to build it right once and not have to back peddle. Also I don't want to empty my wallet on anything that isn't going to improve the performance.

Look forward to hearing from you all, if I've said anything that is a definite no no tell me straight don't get offended easily

Cheers
Dan

Welcome Dan, it's yourself is it? Jeez.... I also play drums and have a studio soundsound.ie ..... Are we.... twins? Aliens?
That seems like a very narrow space. If you were to include free standing isolated stud walls inside...... very very narrow. At which point is will sound horrendous, requiring acoustic treatment. You might want to buy an Arctic Sleeping bag instead! OK seriously. Virtual Drums have been improving all the time. You can even use mesh heads and triggers on real drums. Or go all the way with Aerodrums. I have moved from Rubber Drums to Aero. The lack of bounce is a great work out. Like brushes.

Hi Dan Dan such a great name parents used it twice ey?

Yeah it going to be mainly for me to be honest maybe a mate with a guitar pop round now an then. Basically I have been on a low volume set up for 5 years now and my kit is in the bedroom cant be any smaller than where it is now (see pic lol),also have my other gretsch kit in the corner stacked up basically its starting to wear thin with the mrs so plan B needs to come in to effect.

I was thinking to follow the layout of the structure as opposed to studding it off at the narrowist parts. I worked it out with 69x38mm CLS, I will after studwork and double boarding on both sides be left with 2.250m at widest part on width and just over 2m where the block piers are I have fitted kit in smaller space

Happy to treat the room with acoustic panels I understand its not going to be a pro level space just somewhere I can blast out on the real deal as the low volume is ok for practising the motions but not everything translates onto a real acoustic kit, dynamics etc..

edit : scrub that just seen your link lol, I'll take a look at your site

Been there..... I am experimenting with Flats at the moment. Damn Kick tensioners go slack within minutes. But a great frame etc. I also have a Legero Kit. Toms are a bit silly but playable. Don't have the snare, but I have used the Kick for hundreds of gigs. It's a pity you can't really demo Aerodrums, but they have been my main practice kit for some time. Check out Richard's technique......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF8296Aai9k

To be honest I ain’t heard that good things about legaro kits look like fun though, good for compact set up!
The Aerodrums do look fun to try but for me personally I like hitting the drums the noise the feel of it if you know what I mean so if I can get away with a drum room the size that I’m planning I’m really keen to do it. What I need acoustic panels covering most of the walls to get it to sound good in there?

The Legero toms are pretty naff, maybe with oil filled heads though? The Bass Drum actually rocks though. A very nice subby sound using Emad with extra felt glued to the ring, and the Evans little pillow thing. Depending on the pub it can sound huge. I have a little L Bracket onto which I clip an AT 35 Mic. Sounds like a record. Funnily with the name Legero, mine completely collapsed at it's first gig, both legs died. So I bought some Sonor S Class legs and carefully installed them. It is solid as a German Motorway now..... Sound ? depends on what type of good..... KD Laing records feature tight little drums recorded in a closet I have read. I have a Flats Kick and snare sounding pretty good in my vocal booth as we speak. But friends recorded me in an untreated small shed, and it sounded sorta good. Such lively spaces are very very loud though. It strikes me that your roof is currently your weak spot, presuming a good door of course. Soundbloc has good sound blocking specs but I wonder about the weight of two layers of it. Also I wonder about damp, mould. I am not a builder so perhaps our more experienced here would jump in on that? Paul knows our weather!

I've never seen them in the flesh just seen them on you tube, I like the Emad kick drum head though got one on my kit is that the 10x2" snare drum?

That's good to hear that your getting ok sound in your vocal booth. That is a bit of a concern for me of the volume that drums will be in smallish space but again not worried about it being a pro level room just enough to contain the sound and sound half decent with acoustic treatment on walls.

About the roof was thinking insulation (250mm total) on and in between existing trusses then double board sound bloc on underside trusses with green glue. Then a separate independent ceiling underneath with timbers sat on top of new independant wall with insulation in between and double board with soundbloc green glue I'm all open to ideas if anyone has any suggestions or tips for the roof .

Was planning to put a little heater in there on a timer and have passive air vent open when not in there so hopefully would keep the mold away

As I say I'm not a builder, but I think your roof arrangement will require airflow. I am dubious about green glue in that situation.

or follow standard roof ventilation practices to avoid issues with mold, moisture, rot, damage. then identify where an "exterior" mass boundary will work and apply the necessary layers of gwb there (i'd likely skip GG unless you're a trust fund kid) and seal that along with the exterior mass boundary walls - you'll then have the outer shell sealed with the desired mass and your inner shell can be built to be fully decoupled from it as works within your budget.

Thanks that makes sense, I’m actually not concerned about mold in existing roof space as I have over facia vents underneath first row of slate.
Not a trust fund kid so will skip the green glue when double boarding existing roof, but you recommend it for the decoupled walls and ceiling right?

yes GG is an option