John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi all. I'm new to the forum, but I've already learned a lot from all the incredible people and information here. I'm working on a relatively small project studio--my first--and there are a few details I'm still trying to work out I'm hoping folks here might be able to help me with. Because my questions span a couple different topics, I wasn't sure where to post this. I hope this is the right place.

First, I've attached a very basic image I put together of the space which includes the relevant dimension (I know we're supposed to post the images locally--I think that's how we're supposed to do it, but please let me know if there is a different way to post images locally). I'll begin with some general info, and then I'll ask my questions.

General Info

The studio will be used for recording rock bands, so it will get pretty loud. I'm already set on isolation, so I'm not concerned about that. For various reasons, the studio has to be a single room space where the control room and live room will be shared. There's no way around this. There are no impediments in the space--poles, doors, etc, except for those shown in the drawing. There will be soffits that run the length of the room on both sides that will be 2'4" deep and 3' wide. These will contain the HVAC ducting, and will be otherwise filled with rock wool for bass trapping. There will also be a similar soffit that runs along the back wall.

I plan on sort of splitting the space in half, with the front half being the "control room," and therefore basically covering the walls with acoustic treatment (2" deep panels) in this front half, and then for the back half (the "live room"), having treatment on the right wall, but leaving the left wall mostly untreated, with long shelving where I'll hold things like guitar pedals, mics, etc on that left wall. I'll also have large slatfusors on the back wall.

Questions

• I would like to flush mount monitors on the front wall (closest to the top in the image), but I'm not clear on how I go about determining where (horizontally speaking) they should be placed on the wall and what angle they should be arranged in order to create the proper equilateral triangle for the designated listening position. Based on my monitors (Guzauski Swist GS3B), I believe that the monitors will need to sit 3' off the floor so that, sitting flat, the listening position height is 4' 10". But I'm not sure about how to figure out the proper angle.
• I'd like the have a couple power outlets in this front wall. What's the best way to accomplish that while still allowing for flush mounting my monitors and then treating the front wall sufficiently to trap bass and address console reflection?
• In terms of the "control room" I want to make sure I'm addressing reflection from the monitors appropriately. How concerned do I need to be about gear that would be running along those walls--guitar cabs (ideally stacked on top of each other), keyboards, etc--which would be blocking the acoustic treatment on the walls? Is there a height that if I stay below, I'm okay? Or is anything I put along the control room walls going to cause reflections and problems? Is the space very close to the front wall (where the speakers will be mounted) safer space because it's in front of where speaker reflection might occur?
• I would like to install some cabling channels underneath the floor so that I can run cabling from the console and other places to the credenza, but I'm concerned about how doing so will impact sound isolation (this is a 2nd floor space). Is there an approach that is used to "seal up," in some sense, the holes that would be created for these cable runs for sound isolation purposes?

I really appreciate any help or thoughts anyone can offer. Thanks so much in advance!

welcome. is this room currently built or just in the planning stages? knowing where the existing lights and electrical outlets, switches, safety detectors etc are located would be helpful with answering some questions. what is the room height? what speakers do you have? or plan to have? some are better for baffle mounting than others. budget? on the hvac side - it must run continuously while the place is occupied, and the bathroom - if you put the door on the outside (like opposite corner to the entry) then the smells etc will be better contained (even with dedicated venting in the bathroom - required) and better isolation. less pipes and things to transfer sound. less expensive sound isolating door, venting etc.

gullfo wrote:welcome. is this room currently built or just in the planning stages? knowing where the existing lights and electrical outlets, switches, safety detectors etc are located would be helpful with answering some questions. what is the room height? what speakers do you have? or plan to have? some are better for baffle mounting than others. budget? on the hvac side - it must run continuously while the place is occupied, and the bathroom - if you put the door on the outside (like opposite corner to the entry) then the smells etc will be better contained (even with dedicated venting in the bathroom - required) and better isolation. less pipes and things to transfer sound. less expensive sound isolating door, venting etc.

Thanks for the quick response! I should have thought to include ceiling height. I've re-uploaded the image, and included the ceiling height (which is 9' 6"). I've also added little black boxes to designate approximately where electrical outlets are currently planned for (the red boxes are where the mic tie line boxes will be).

To answer your other questions, my project is a little strange. It was originally formally designed as a 2-space studio, but for various reasons it's not worth getting into, I've had to change course so that the space is only a one-room space. I'm trying to adapt the original formal plans to this new configuration as much as possible, but only so much of it translates, hence a lot of my questions. The construction has already begun, but so far, only the shell has been constructed. The entire interior space (including framing, etc) remains to be done.

As for lighting, there will be lights run within the soffits that run along either side of the room, and there will also be lights installed within 6 large clouds that are going to be installed on the ceilings (93.5" x 29.5"). For speakers, I'll be using Guzauski-Swist GS3Bs.

As for the bathroom, are you saying the door into the bathroom should come from outside the studio? The outside of the studio is the outdoors; there are no interior spaces connected to the drawing I posted. So doing that would require people to walk outside to go into the bathroom, which I would like to avoid.

Thanks again for your help.

If anyone has any thoughts, I'm all ears!

Totally agree with Glenn on the bathroom thing: It's not a good idea to have a bathroom that opens into your production space. Humidity, noise, smells, etc. are all issues that you do not want in your room! Put the door someplace that it does not open into the room, and also make sure that your pipes, ducts, etc. are not within the walls that face your room.

However, your room is rather large! At well over 500 ft2, and with that long, thin shape, you might want to think about just walling off the entire rear end, bathroom included. That would make more sense, both acoustically and practically. For example, with those dimensions, your room ratio is not so good, and currently your mix position is almost exactly 25% of room depth, which is one of the worst places. General guideline is 38%, but anywhere between around 30% and 40% is reasonable. 25% and 50% are the worst spots, for modal issues. (Info about modes and room ratios: Modes, Room Ratios, and Schroeder )

I would like to flush mount monitors on the front wall (closest to the top in the image), but I'm not clear on how I go about determining where (horizontally speaking) they should be placed on the wall and what angle they should be arranged in order to create the proper equilateral triangle

You might find this useful:

Speaker setup, and the equilateral triangle

- Stuart -

Thanks. That's helpful. Two points I'm still hoping for more clarity on:

• In terms of the "control room" I want to make sure I'm addressing reflection from the monitors appropriately. How concerned do I need to be about gear that would be running along those walls--guitar cabs (ideally stacked on top of each other), keyboards, etc--which would be blocking the acoustic treatment on the walls? Is there a height that if I stay below, I'm okay? Or is anything I put along the control room walls going to cause reflections and problems? Is the space very close to the front wall (where the speakers will be mounted) safer space because it's in front of where speaker reflection might occur?

• I would like to install some cabling channels underneath the floor so that I can run cabling from the console and other places to the credenza, but I'm concerned about how doing so will impact sound isolation (this is a 2nd floor space). Is there an approach that is used to "seal up," in some sense, the holes that would be created for these cable runs for sound isolation purposes?

generally - you get the room response correct. then add the walls of equipment. you're ears will adjust to the "stuff". you can keep some packing blankets to cover said gear - keeps off duct and reduces the reflections. nothing can be done really unless you don't have the equipment there(which is an option few people have - check out CLA's room - he has a wall of gear just a few feet behind his listening position - and he's used to the room (it's his) and therefore the reflections etc general don't impede his work)...

gullfo wrote:generally - you get the room response correct. then add the walls of equipment. you're ears will adjust to the "stuff". you can keep some packing blankets to cover said gear - keeps off duct and reduces the reflections. nothing can be done really unless you don't have the equipment there(which is an option few people have - check out CLA's room - he has a wall of gear just a few feet behind his listening position - and he's used to the room (it's his) and therefore the reflections etc general don't impede his work)...

Got it. That's good to hear. So it sounds like--it's not ideal, but it's not the end of the world. It's been something I've been really concerned about and trying to figure out how to rearrange my room to make it all work without having stuff in the reflection areas, and I wasn't sure how I was going to be able to make it work. So thanks for that!

i've been in a few expensive studios (say $5M+ per room types) and to then see them cluttered is shocking at first but then you realize - people are doing work. and the $5M+ room is still going to sound (or not sound, rather) great so some clutter is no big deal really. as long as the lava lamp is there and lit, virtually nothing can go wrong (technically )