John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

This will be my first post to the forum, I am infinitely grateful to have a resource. I am not very construction savvy so I will try my best to be term- specific about the construction.

Overview and Goals: We have a 18’ W x 22’ L x 8’ 5” H garage area on a concrete slab that I would like to convert into a either a single multipurpose live and mix room or alternatively a live room/ control room setup. The garage itself is constructed with 2x4 framing, has a stucco exterior , garage door that needs to be removed with new framing and entryway in its place , and an asphalt roof with OSB backing atop 2x8 ceiling joists . I am in the research phase currently and have not begun construction, hence my indecision about what types of rooms to construct in the area I have available.

After doing some reading of Rod Gervais’ book and some research on the forum I am leaning towards a two leaf wood frame construction. Ideally, we would fortify the outer wall of stucco with new 2 new layers of ¾” and 5/8” drywall inside of the existing wall framing, every layer caulked and sealed . The same process will be applied to the roof cladding. Insulating both walls with a small air gap between, and doing a 3 layer inner leaf with OSB Board, 5/8” Drywall and 1/2 “ drywall, all staggered and caulked.
I am not sure about the legality of floating floors in California, ideally I would love to build a floating floor but I am honestly uncertain if they are permitted in California. Another issue with the floating floor is my existing ceiling height, as I only have 8’ 5” of clearance (concrete to joists) to work with. It would seem as though I need to conserve as much vertical height as possible.

For ventilation, I am leaning towards some form of mini split system, the output of which I won’t know until I have a more finalized plan of the rooms that will be need to be framed.

How Loud I am: I am a self-producing rock drummer as well as a studio engineer regularly recording drums, guitar amps, bass amps and vocals. I also play in a few bands locally and would love to be able to host rehearsal sessions as well. My SPL measurements are as follows:

My drums peak at 119 up close, and through the existing construction the same drums being played from outside the garage (door closed) peak around 85-90 dB.
I have ambient noise outside of my garage anywhere from 75-85dB depending on if neighbors are working with tools outside, or just normal street traffic.
My washer and dryer running full volume peak at 75 dB as well.


At the moment, I do track myself and mix in my garage, completely untreated. I keep my drumming to what I would consider “normal business hours” and sometimes track in a second bedroom (and have to roll gear as well when that is necessary). I am looking to find the ideal way to increase the amount of time that I can track drums (as well as decrease the amount of time spent setting up) for clients, as well as prevent neighbors from becoming annoyed.
Budget: I have a budget of roughly 15,000$. I have not done too much research on materials as of yet so I’m not too sure of what to expect of a build this magnitude. So if my estimation seems off for the scope of this project I am open to receiving a reality check!

How quiet do I need to be: We live in a patio home and share a wall (where the garage is located) and potentially framing with our neighbor’s home . Our neighbors are not directly on the other side of the garage, but rather connected to our kitchen which is just inside the door from our garage. It would be great to be able record and rehearse drums throughout the day without disrupting them too much, I don’t mind keeping the drumming to a daytime activity I don’t have a need to do crazy late drum sessions typically. Band practice would be a much less frequent event, so if my budget can accommodate for higher TL construction, I would definitely be open to suggestions.

Details about my space: The garage sits on a concrete slab (I’m not sure if it is shared with our neighbors), and is also attached to our home.

One catch with the space, I cannot utilize the entire 22” of length for the build as we do have a furnace, water heater, washer, and dryer all at the attached end of the garage which we intend to leave in place as there is no other location for those appliances. I anticipate to lose about 6-7 feet of useable space meaning that the useable dimensions of the garage become 16’ W x 18’ L give or take.

Questions:
1) I have read in the reference area that floating floors are not always necessary when construction is on a concrete slab, and may even be unpermitable in California. Should I Skip the floating floor and divert my budget towards proper wall and ceiling materials?
2) Being that I have such a small useable space, would I be better off building a single room studio Instead of the 2 room setup? (Keeping in mind that I do record and produce myself and need direct access to the computer at the drums, but I also record other talent regularly)
3) Also, because the appliances need to be left in garage what would be the best way of finishing the inside wall of the washroom as to avoid creating a 3 leaf system? I’m at a loss but leaning towards building a “soundlock” wall constructed the same as the inner leaf walls and not treating the washroom as a leaf at all and leaving the construction .
4) Because we are first time home owners in addition, we are curious about how adding a studio to the home might affect its value overall. We are considering building it as a living space which would mean the floorplan would also need to accommodate an additional full bathroom. What is the best approach as far as legality and codes are concerned?

Hello & howdo' Marcus?
I read your post with interest as your proposed project is quite similar to mine (notwithstanding the water heater, washer, and dryer). You are obviously looking to gain the maximum amount of isolation possible within the limits of construction (as I am) and for a self build studio this is likely to be little more than about 55dB (at best). The first thing I would encourage you to do (if you haven't already) is to buy a good quality sound level meter and measure how loud you are (acoustic drums and electric bass guitar are typically two of the more difficult instruments to isolate) so you know what level of sound you need to stop escaping. Also measure the environmental noise around the studio so you know what level you need to keep out. I would also take note of how loud the washer and dryer are as you definitely don't want the sound of laundry on your recordings and also it will serve as a good indicator of the amount of noise your neighbours are currently living with (and presumably tolerating).

I am in the research phase currently and have not begun construction, hence my indecision about what types of rooms to construct in the area I have available.

Good news! Don't be in a tearing hurry to start building - it took me 3 years of planning, designing and re-designing before I was confident enough to pick up a hammer. I'm not suggesting it will take you that long but it's vital to plan thoroughly and understand why you are doing what you are doing. When you have developed a detailed design plan, I would encourage you to consult a structural engineer to advise you on supporting the extra load you are going to impose on your roof structure by adding insulation to it and to make sure that your inner leaf framing will support the ceiling span (assuming that you will be building a MSM room within a room type of studio).

For ventilation, I am leaning towards some form of mini split system

I chose to build a ductless mini-split system.

Questions:
1) I have read in the reference area that floating floors are not always necessary when construction is on a concrete slab . . . Should I Skip the floating floor and divert my budget towards proper wall and ceiling materials?

Yes, I wouldn't consider a floating floor for this kind of project. They need to be properly engineered to work correctly and can add a huge amount of cost to the budget. There are other, less expensive options for reducing structure-borne transmission such as building isolating risers for drum kits and amplifiers.

2) Being that I have such a small useable space, would I be better off building a single room studio Instead of the 2 room setup?

Yes, I would say so. This is what I chose to do (although my requirements are probably slightly different to yours in that I don't intend to do any serious mixing in my room). It is possible to build a single room studio that works well as both a recording/playing space and control room.

3) Also . . . what would be the best way of finishing the inside wall of the washroom as to avoid creating a 3 leaf system?

Sometimes you just have to accept that three leaves are unavoidable. Where this happens you can mitigate the problem by placing most of the mass in the middle leaf. Ideally, the middle leaf should have the same mass as the other two leaves combined but if that's not possible in practice, put as much as you can on the middle leaf.

4) Because we are first time home owners in addition, we are curious about how adding a studio to the home might affect its value overall.

I'm no expert on the Californian property market but my guess is it won't improve the value of your home.

We are considering building it as a living space which would mean the floorplan would also need to accommodate an additional full bathroom. What is the best approach as far as legality and codes are concerned?

I really have no idea about the local building codes involved here but given the limited space available, I would think very carefully about sacrificing any more than I needed to in order to achieve the primary goal. I'm guessing that you already have a water supply going into the garage and a waste pipe coming out, so it would be possible to re-purpose if you no longer needed the studio? I would advise keeping the plan as simple as you possibly can.
Let us know what your thoughts are Marcus - good luck and best wishes, John.

Thank you for the helpful and well thought out advice John, I had began reading about your build a few months ago. Your thread alone seems like it has a wealth of information I'll need to thoroughly read to see what changes have been made!

John Steel wrote:Hello & howdo' Marcus?
I read your post with interest as your proposed project is quite similar to mine (notwithstanding the water heater, washer, and dryer). You are obviously looking to gain the maximum amount of isolation possible within the limits of construction (as I am) and for a self build studio this is likely to be little more than about 55dB (at best). The first thing I would encourage you to do (if you haven't already) is to buy a good quality sound level meter and measure how loud you are (acoustic drums and electric bass guitar are typically two of the more difficult instruments to isolate) so you know what level of sound you need to stop escaping. Also measure the environmental noise around the studio so you know what level you need to keep out. I would also take note of how loud the washer and dryer are as you definitely don't want the sound of laundry on your recordings and also it will serve as a good indicator of the amount of noise your neighbours are currently living with (and presumably tolerating).

Oh geeze, thank you for pointing that out. I missed just about one of the most important rules about measuring how loud I am, I think that's the "rock drummer" in me! I'll edit my original post to include my spl measurements.

John Steel wrote:Good news! Don't be in a tearing hurry to start building - it took me 3 years of planning, designing and re-designing before I was confident enough to pick up a hammer. I'm not suggesting it will take you that long but it's vital to plan thoroughly and understand why you are doing what you are doing. When you have developed a detailed design plan, I would encourage you to consult a structural engineer to advise you on supporting the extra load you are going to impose on your roof structure by adding insulation to it and to make sure that your inner leaf framing will support the ceiling span (assuming that you will be building a MSM room within a room type of studio).

I think I need to hear this, as I can tend to be hasty at times! I will try and formulate a more detailed plan over the next few months.

John Steel wrote:Yes, I wouldn't consider a floating floor for this kind of project. They need to be properly engineered to work correctly and can add a huge amount of cost to the budget. There are other, less expensive options for reducing structure-borne transmission such as building isolating risers for drum kits and amplifiers.

Wow, this tip is very enlightening and helpful! Thank you for the detailed construction plan as well, I think I will go down this route.

John Steel wrote:Yes, I would say so. This is what I chose to do (although my requirements are probably slightly different to yours in that I don't intend to do any serious mixing in my room). It is possible to build a single room studio that works well as both a recording/playing space and control room.

Noted!

John Steel wrote:Sometimes you just have to accept that three leaves are unavoidable. Where this happens you can mitigate the problem by placing most of the mass in the middle leaf. Ideally, the middle leaf should have the same mass as the other two leaves combined but if that's not possible in practice, put as much as you can on the middle leaf.

Ah I see. So if the washroom has drywall on the inside of the house, and stucco on the exterior, would I need to add one more layer of drywall, and some form of concrete wall to my "soundock"? Or will 2 additional layers of drywall suffice?

John Steel wrote:I'm no expert on the Californian property market but my guess is it won't improve the value of your home.

Thank you regardless for taking the time to read!

John Steel wrote:I really have no idea about the local building codes involved here but given the limited space available, I would think very carefully about sacrificing any more than I needed to in order to achieve the primary goal. I'm guessing that you already have a water supply going into the garage and a waste pipe coming out, so it would be possible to re-purpose if you no longer needed the studio? I would advise keeping the plan as simple as you possibly can.
Let us know what your thoughts are Marcus - good luck and best wishes, John.

That is a very good point of view on the subject. I'll need to talk to some people within my city's permit division to find out a little more for my specific situation