How much sound proofing do I need?

[MansBestFriend]

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of purchasing a block of land .5 Ha. My partner and I will be building our home there and I would like to build a backyard shed/studio where I can play drums/guitar and a bit of recording, in the hobby sense, at anytime I want. While not disturbing the neighbours or my partner. I'd also like to achieve this for under 15k AUD . Roughly 10k USD.

My first question is, with no building/construction experience, is this a goal I can achieve? Or should I end my quest right here and now?

If this goal isn't unrealistic, my next question is how much sound proofing will I need? As I'm on acreage, will I still need to go to the full length of adding mass and building a room within a room?
Would a simple staggered stud and insulation design provide satisfactory sound reduction/proofing ?

Any help/advice would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[Paulus87]

How far away are your nearest neighbours and how big do you need the room to be?

Paul

[MansBestFriend]

Hi Paul,

With their 20m set back + ours... at least 40m. House design and placement are a ways off as our offer was only accepted today. Meaning 40m is the only thing I can say with confidence.

As for size, basically as large as my budget and sound reduction goals will allow.

[Paulus87]

Hi Paul,

With their 20m set back + ours... at least 40m. House design and placement are a ways off as our offer was only accepted today. Meaning 40m is the only thing I can say with confidence.

As for size, basically as large as my budget and sound reduction goals will allow.

That distance will help you out, for every doubling of distance sound reduces by 6db.

I can't really comment on your budget since I have no idea how much things cost where you are. It sounds very tight, but perhaps doable if you are doing all the work yourself and you manage to buy in bulk/second hand etc. Even then, I think it would cost at least double if you're going to build a fully isolated structure. HVAC (which you definitely need) can cost a fortune by itself, not to mention tools and materials.

Perhaps you won't need it to be fully isolated (room within a room) you might get away with just building a very substantial shed. If the building was built from concrete blocks on a slab on grade and the roof was block and beam then I would say that'd be good enough for your needs. It wouldn't be silent directly outside, but by the time the sound reaches your neighbours it would be pretty quiet.

In the UK the cost of blocks is not too bad, but bricky labour is quite expensive.

You could build a timber framed building, the level of sound reduction will be significantly less but also you say you have little building experience. I think the only way you could achieve this with your budget is do all the work yourself, perhaps with the help of someone more experienced who is willing to work for free

We can help you with the actual design, but you would need to decide roughly how big you want it and how much you sound reduction you actually need - we cannot help you with either of those things. If you're not sure how to work that out then first of all work out how much space you need for all your instruments, gear and for the amount of people that's going to be inside at any one time. Then add a bit of space for acoustic treatment, the walls themselves and space to walk around. I'm not sure what the rules are where you are from but you may only be able to make it so big without needing to apply for planning permission, which is no big deal but it will add cost.

Then to work out how much sound reduction you need I have a couple ideas; perhaps get a dB meter app on your phone, get someone to play the drums loudly in your current space, or in a shed similar to what you'd like to build, close all the doors and windows, measure how loud it is inside, then directly outside and then walk 40 meters away and measure again. You should also be able to hear if it's too loud or acceptable. From those measurements you should be able to work out roughly how much you need. It's not a scientific test just something to give you a rough idea. My thinking is that if the amount of reduction you get from a simple residential building or shed is good enough then that's all you need to build. If it's not good enough then you know you'll have to build something more substantial.

Paul

[MansBestFriend]

Hi Paul,

With their 20m set back + ours... at least 40m. House design and placement are a ways off as our offer was only accepted today. Meaning 40m is the only thing I can say with confidence.

As for size, basically as large as my budget and sound reduction goals will allow.

That distance will help you out, for every doubling of distance sound reduces by 6db.

I can't really comment on your budget since I have no idea how much things cost where you are. It sounds very tight, but perhaps doable if you are doing all the work yourself and you manage to buy in bulk/second hand etc. Even then, I think it would cost at least double if you're going to build a fully isolated structure. HVAC (which you definitely need) can cost a fortune by itself, not to mention tools and materials.

Perhaps you won't need it to be fully isolated (room within a room) you might get away with just building a very substantial shed. If the building was built from concrete blocks on a slab on grade and the roof was block and beam then I would say that'd be good enough for your needs. It wouldn't be silent directly outside, but by the time the sound reaches your neighbours it would be pretty quiet.

In the UK the cost of blocks is not too bad, but bricky labour is quite expensive.

You could build a timber framed building, the level of sound reduction will be significantly less but also you say you have little building experience. I think the only way you could achieve this with your budget is do all the work yourself, perhaps with the help of someone more experienced who is willing to work for free

We can help you with the actual design, but you would need to decide roughly how big you want it and how much you sound reduction you actually need - we cannot help you with either of those things. If you're not sure how to work that out then first of all work out how much space you need for all your instruments, gear and for the amount of people that's going to be inside at any one time. Then add a bit of space for acoustic treatment, the walls themselves and space to walk around. I'm not sure what the rules are where you are from but you may only be able to make it so big without needing to apply for planning permission, which is no big deal but it will add cost.

Then to work out how much sound reduction you need I have a couple ideas; perhaps get a dB meter app on your phone, get someone to play the drums loudly in your current space, or in a shed similar to what you'd like to build, close all the doors and windows, measure how loud it is inside, then directly outside and then walk 40 meters away and measure again. You should also be able to hear if it's too loud or acceptable. From those measurements you should be able to work out roughly how much you need. It's not a scientific test just something to give you a rough idea. My thinking is that if the amount of reduction you get from a simple residential building or shed is good enough then that's all you need to build. If it's not good enough then you know you'll have to build something more substantial.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thanks again for your response truly helpful.

For council approval if what I've read is correct, it should not be an issue. Due to a new building act, building is now categorised as "Low/Medium/High risk" . Generally speaking, low and medium risk do not need formal approval. Which is what I expect this building to be classified as.

I'd like the build something 6m x 4m x 3m . This would be comfortable.

I'm interested in the concrete block route. We're talking about cinder blocks I assume? I've got a friend who is a concreter, so If I could get him to mates rates the entire building made out of concrete, maybe that is the way to go?

I imagine going the concrete road for thermal/moisture and acoustic reasons I will have to frame the inside and insulate. Is that correct? also what options would i be looking at for floor covering?

[Paulus87]

Hi Paul,

Thanks again for your response truly helpful.

For council approval if what I've read is correct, it should not be an issue. Due to a new building act, building is now categorised as "Low/Medium/High risk" . Generally speaking, low and medium risk do not need formal approval. Which is what I expect this building to be classified as.

I'd like the build something 6m x 4m x 3m . This would be comfortable.

I'm interested in the concrete block route. We're talking about cinder blocks I assume? I've got a friend who is a concreter, so If I could get him to mates rates the entire building made out of concrete, maybe that is the way to go?

I imagine going the concrete road for thermal/moisture and acoustic reasons I will have to frame the inside and insulate. Is that correct? also what options would i be looking at for floor covering?

Brilliant, if you don't need approval and you can get mates rates on the block work then you'll be in very good shape and a very lucky man indeed.

That is a very nice size, if those are the internal dimensions then obviously the external dimensions will be larger, depending on what size blocks you use and if you decide to go the room within a room route then you'll want to add the extra space for the air gap and internal framing.

I'm not sure at this stage how much you're concerned with the actual acoustics of the space? If you're not going to be doing a lot of critical listening and mixing then in my opinion you won't need as much acoustic treatment. Proper acoustic treatment in a control room takes up a lot of space, 600mm or more is quite typical in certain areas such as the rear wall and ceiling for example, so if you DO need/want that then you'll also have to take that into account when sizing your space. Also, if you indeed do what this room to sound at its best then you should make sure your room dimensions are not multiples or the same, so if your height is 3m then perhaps consider changing your length from 6m to 7m. These dimensions are measured from the solid boundaries that are structural, not including acoustic treatment (thankfully). In a room within a room it would be measured between your inner room walls/ceiling rather than the outer.

One thing to mention at this stage is you need to consider what kind of roof you would like to have on your building. If it is a cold roof design then it must be ventilated, which means holes. Holes are the enemy to sound isolation, but if designed correctly the vents will not penetrate your actual isolation layers. I can help you with that when we get there. If you go for a warm roof design then you will not need a ventilated roof space, as you will insulate above the roof deck. Either of these options will work fine, but it's worth looking into the costs and pros and cons of each so that you can decide early on.

If going for blocks then you should look into your building regs as to whether or not you'll need "air bricks" or vents etc in the walls. Your builder mate will probably be able to help you here. If they are required then that'll have to be designed carefully as to not trash your sound isolation.

As for the floor, you can leave it concrete and polish/seal it for example. That's very cheap and can be a very good looking option. Or you can put down a hard wooden floor, or laminate, or vinyl. Basically anything solid, hard and reflective is best for a studio. If you're not worried too much about the acoustics then you can use carpet, but I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Paul