Studio build in Ecuador, complete novice!

[drummersteve]

Hi everyone,

I'm Steve, from UK but now living in Ecuador. Just bought a new house which has a perfect space for a studio. Apologies in advance for the length of this post, I really am a novice and, despite the hours of reading I've done, I could really do with some help and advice on my plans! thank you for your patience and taking your time to read in advance!!

A quick bit about myself and my needs:

I am a composer, my wife a vocalist. I want a space that I can work, and that she can sing (ie one main control room/work space for me, and a decent sized vocal booth for her to be able to practice/sing in, without feeling like she is in a toilet cubicle). I track some instruments, but not much (acoustic, electric guitar (without cab), percussion, violin). One day I may bring my drum kit over to Ecuador from UK, something to consider.

The space I have (and I currently work in) is an extension the previous owners built. It sits between what used to be the external wall of our house, and the perimeter wall that separates our property from that of the neighbours. They have built it by running two wooden ledgers down the length of each of these walls, setting joists along them, and then laying sheets of glass on top of the joists. Its essentially a glorified pergola (glorified in that the two other ends are closed with a wall and glass sliding doors.) I'll attach pictures to better demonstrate. Obvious problems of this construction for my needs are:

1) Glass ceiling, despite having some dark material covering it, makes the room like a green house under the equatorial sun! So, very hot very quick in the day.
2) Glass ceiling furthermore does nothing for sound insulation. Neither do the glass sliding doors at the rear end of the room (which open up onto the garden).
3) There is an opening between this room and the rest of the house, which is just that - an opening (ie no door). So its nearly impossible to track anything during the day with my mother in law watching her TV novellas...!

My requirements, therefore, are to convert this space into a well-isolated room, where the noise from outside doesn't come in, and my noise doesn't escape (obvious/basics!) Thankfully, the other side of the perimeter wall into my neighbours property is outdoor space (ie not their house), so I', not overly concerned with my noise getting to them. I am more concerned about my noise travelling into the rest of my house (I'm frequently up at 2am working, and realistically I'd never be working too loud at this time, but I want it to be completely cut off from my house, if possible). Furthermore, if I do bring my drum kit over, the daytime playing of this would be, ideally, isolated from my house, and outside too. The sound coming in from outside is also a concern - given the location of the house, the room currently backs onto a tiny garden via the sliding glass doors as described above, and the garden then backs onto a road. It's a small quiet road, but the cars are very close (picture attached). Furthermore, the neighbour has an Alsatian dog on his roof, which barks almost 24/7, very loudly. So, stopping these noises coming in is very important.

My other requirement is a vocal room for my wife. We have two options - 1) build it inside the current room. The room is a good size, but not huge (plans below), so my preferred option is number 2) - extend into the garden, and build her room separately. Again, her room will need to be fully sound-proofed/isolated, so she can sing her heart out without any fear of disturbing anyone. The best scenario is that she can be singing/practicing/writing in her 'room' (I stress room as I want it to be a reasonably comfortable space for her, not just a poxy cubicle), whilst I am working in the control room, and we don't bother/disturb one another. Similarly, as she will be recording in there, external noise will need to be cut out (this is a pretty major concern right now, as the planned extension will basically end up backing directly onto the road - I need to be as sure as possible in advance I can cut out the road noise, if I am to execute this idea. More on this later...) There are currently two walls that exist that will form this vocal room (the continuation of the perimeter wall, which extends right to the end of my garden, and then takes a 90 degree turn and continues for a little while along the back end of the garden, the other side of which is the road - again, pictures attached will hopefully demonstrate this a bit clearer).

As the three walls (excluding the glass sliding doors) of the current room are roughly/a minimum go 6" thick masonry (the external masonry of the house), I assume they will provide reasonable insulation in itself, once all air gaps etc are properly sealed. However, I feel that to completely minimise sound transmission, I have to create a 'room within a room' structure. Having read Rod Gervais' book, I know that the two-leaf design (gypsum+gypsum w/ green glue > Insulation > Air Gap > Insulation > Insulation > gypsum+gypsum w/ green glue) gives the best isolation/space ratio, so this is my 'starting point'. I obviously want to weigh up the necessity for this, given that it will eat into real estate in the space of the studio, and also financially be kind of expensive. However obviously I don't want to try cut corners to save money, only to discover I haven't achieved the level of isolation I require! So this is my 'worst-case scenario' plan (in terms of highest budget/most floor real estate). I figure if I plan for this, I'll only end up changing it for a cheaper solution/one that uses less space.. The same approach goes for the vocal room.

So I believe that pretty much covers everything up until where I am now. I believe that there are two main phases involved in this process. They are:

PHASE 1: MAKE THE CURRENT SPACES 'GOOD'.
By this, I mean the following:
1) A door needs to be added between the main space, and the house, as it is currently an opening. The 'frame' of this opening is solid masonry, roughly 6" thick. This will at least isolate the studio from the house a bit more successfully. (I think this step has to happen first as there will be various moments that the studio room is exposed to the elements, so adding the door first means the rest of the house will not be exposed).
2) The glass sliding doors at the rear of the room need to be removed, and replaced with a wall (masonry). I say masonry as I suppose this is an extension of the outer shell of the room, and should therefore match the rest of the outer shell. This wall then needs to be extended out at a 90 degree into the garden, to form the missing wall of the vocal booth (as I will be utilising the current walls that exist in the garden, only one wall remains to be built). Essentially, an L-shaped construction.
3) With the new walls in place, I need to construct a proper ceiling. Ie, remove and replace the current glass ceiling of the control room with a proper ceiling (again outer shell only, as there will be a secondary roof given the 'room within a room' approach). This roof will also be extended onto that of the vocal room.

PHASE 2: INNER SHELL
This will come later. but it involves the construction of the room within the room, designing and implementing HVAC, electrical/wiring, inner doors, etc etc.

As mentioned above, I need to start with the outer door. In Gervais' book, he details a 'super door', which would only require the one single door for the studio. As I plan on doing two doors, I feel this is perhaps overkill. So, My first port of call is to plan and implement the installation of the first door! This will probably the most complicated and difficult bit to do - I realise the importance of getting the door right, as its probably the weakest link in the chain. It also involves reasonably unique components.

The current vertical frame of the opening is the masonry of the house, at a width of 1m. I still have to look in the market over here for what kind of doors are available, but I know it has to be a door with significant mass (ie not a hollow shell). Furthermore, I'm aware that there are specialist types of seals to put around the vertical and horizontal stoppers. Finally, the threshold at the bottom - again in Gervais' book, he details some of reasonably complex design, coupled with the base of the door having a drop mechanism, to fully seal the gap once closed. If I'm totally honest, a lot of these things will be difficult to source over here in Ecuador, so I suppose my first question is:

1) To what extent are these specialist components (such as the specialist seals/threshold mechanisms) crucial to the success of the door? Does anyone else have a more DIY approach, with more commonly available materials, that would be equally (or almost equally) as successful?

Finding a door - no problem; a door with significant mass - still probably not a problem; the specialist sealing mechanisms - a problem!

Once I'm able to source the materials, I need to install it. As the width of the door is unknown, but the width of my opening is very much fixed, My next question is:

2) How should the door frame be attached to the wall? Does it need isolating in some way from the masonry outer shell? Depending on the width of the door frame, I envisaged vertical studs (either attached directly to the masonry if the door is almost 1m wide, or perhaps a little bit narrower, running the height of the opening), and the door frame then attaching to those studs..? I will obviously need a header inserted between the masonry,. presumably supported by studs.

And finally...

3) The opening is going to be higher than the frame of the door. How do I address filling in this extra space above? I can see many diagrams online as to how to construct the woodwork framing, but this clearly needs filling with something dense top match the density of the masonry shell/the door.

I am very sorry for this incredibly long post! In summary, I want to figure out the door first. The rest comes later, which I will go into more detail as I progress through the process. But anyone that can give me some pointers at this stage would be greatly appreciated!

One last point - I have a very experienced constructor/builder here in Ecuador who will be implementing all of the designs to me with his skills. However he would not know how to achieve what I am after, which is why I am trying to learn and plan everything myself.

Thanks again!

[drummersteve]

Hi all,

Sorry for double post - not my intention to 'bump'. Given my drawings were kind of rubbish and my explanations perhaps hard to visualise, I have taken the time to learn SketchUp and do some very detailed to-scale plans of the current layout of the room I'm dealing with.

1) The 'studio' is the room with the wooden joists running along its roof. Outside the glass doors is the garden (note how there is a masonry wall running out into the garden and along the back a little - this is the proposed location of vocal booth).

2) The other side of the opening is the living room, obviously haven't bothered detailing the rest of the house.

3) Behind the studio is an old 'maids quarters' room, which is currently a storage room. This could, in theory, also be used as a vocal space if adapted. Our intention was to turn it into a little living space area for when clients come over (which will be happening for sure), but it may be better to use this space for the vocals, given the other side of the garden is a road...

My first concern is the opening between the studio and the house, and how to best go about putting in a door here. And furthermore, how to fill in the space above the door that will be left (ie what materials).

Thank you all!

[Gregwor]

Nice detailed post! Could you fill out your profile as per the forum rules please? Thank you

1) To what extent are these specialist components (such as the specialist seals/threshold mechanisms) crucial to the success of the door? Does anyone else have a more DIY approach, with more commonly available materials, that would be equally (or almost equally) as successful?

The seals/thresholds don't have to be a specific model per say. Having a GREAT sealing system for your doors is critical to the overall isolation you'll achieve. Here in Canada I have a source for 4731 seals. I sadly can't comment on the availability of or suggest any equivalent replacements in your area.

2) How should the door frame be attached to the wall? Does it need isolating in some way from the masonry outer shell? Depending on the width of the door frame, I envisaged vertical studs (either attached directly to the masonry if the door is almost 1m wide, or perhaps a little bit narrower, running the height of the opening), and the door frame then attaching to those studs..? I will obviously need a header inserted between the masonry,. presumably supported by studs.

Anchor the door in whatever way you need to in order to ensure a very very sturdy construction. And yes, like every other aspect of the studio build, it needs to be air tight with no void of surface density anywhere. So, caulk the heck out of it!

3) The opening is going to be higher than the frame of the door. How do I address filling in this extra space above? I can see many diagrams online as to how to construct the woodwork framing, but this clearly needs filling with something dense top match the density of the masonry shell/the door.

I would try to match the rest of the building if I were you.

One last point - I have a very experienced constructor/builder here in Ecuador who will be implementing all of the designs to me with his skills. However he would not know how to achieve what I am after, which is why I am trying to learn and plan everything myself.

That is great news! Just study like crazy and ask the questions you simply can't find the answers to. The search feature on the forum is very handy and chances are, you'll find answers to almost all of your questions here on the forum!

Good luck!

Greg

[drummersteve]

Hi Gregwor, thanks for your reply. It's been a while since you wrote back, and I've been spending a lot of time thinking, researching, posting on other forums too, to try and get my design finalised. I'll recap everything below.

I finally have my door designed! Based on the suggestions of Soundman2020 (Stuart in Santiago, Chile), I have used thick jamb/frame to fill up the excess space on the sides, and the top will be filled by using 2x 4x8 pieces. This design takes into account a 4mm clearance between the door slab and the frame, and an additional 5mm approx between the doorframe and the opening in the wall to fill with backer rod/caulk. Designs below:

Door Design mk1 small.jpeg

Door Design mk1 with door small.jpeg

Given the lack of availability of specialist products over here, I have opted to build my own threshold (design pictures attached).

threshold detail.jpg

threshold detail w jamb small.jpg

From what I could tell, the main advantages of the Zero International thresholds that come recommended all over, are the thermal breaks, and the neoprene seal (as well as being very well designed and built obviously). My design has the seal incorporated in to it. I have also searched far and wide for a rubber seal as close to the GM trunk rubber. On the face of it, the one I have found is not at all similar, but with some re-shaping, I think it will work well enough. (picture attached).

IMG_3115.JPG

IMG_1925.JPG

IMG_5619.JPG

IMG_0401.JPG

Drop seals are a no go over here, so I'm going to get a slot routed out of the door to fit a semi-mortised drop seal at a later date, whenever I next travel back to the UK/USA.

I have sourced backer rod, and an appropriate acoustic caulk to fill in the edges. I think I have sourced some decent heavy-duty hinges too (youll see from the design I plan on using 7 hinges in total).

The door itself will be two 3/4" slabs attached together with screws/glue (wood glue not green glue). the inner slab will be cut 3/4" smaller on top and side edges to achieve the double-seal.

Having got this far, I now have some construction-orientated questions, hopefully someone can help me out, as I feel these points may be pretty fundamental to the success of the door...

1) The substantial door frame itself (made up of 3x8's) is only on the sides and top, not the bottom. The threshold on the bottom is considerably thinner than these very chunky sides/top. Is this a problem? If so, one solution is to put a bottom plate below the threshold, which is below the current level of the floor. Which in some way leads me to my next question...

2) What should the threshold be mounted upon, and in what way? (this also applies to the edges of the frame uprights). Right now the floor is porcelain tiles, which will eventually all be replaced (but not for now). Obviously I don't want to fit the door on top of this, so I will be cutting a section of the porcelain out to fit in the threshold... so, once I've but the space in the porcelain, how should I approach...

a) fill the new recess with concrete to bring it level with the current floor, and attach the threshold to this?

b) fill with some new concrete to level it, then have an additional piece of lumber BEFORE the threshold on top?

Final part of this question - should I be putting a layer of mass-loaded venial between the threshold and the concrete? How do I achieve an airtight seal otherwise? I've attached a photo of the little section in the opening of the porcelain tiles (the dark ones are the studio the light ones are my living room, which will remain.) Picture of the floor below.

IMG_3806.jpg

3) I've searched far and wide for fully-fledged designs of the door, but cant find many. From what I've determined, the sides and top edges have a double seal w/ the recessed second door slab. But what about the bottom edge? As you can see in my design, there is a bottom seal that combines with the sides for the outer slab, but there isn't a secondary inner seal along the bottom edge. Is this correct? Kind of feels like not having a bottom seal would make the other 3 seals on the inner slab kind of redundant? What am I missing here? See close up of my design to see what I mean below...

Threshold w door close up.jpg

They are my major concerns for now. Still have to source a locking/latching mechanism suitable for such a thick door. Door closure, whilst Im haven't looked into it properly yet, will be no problem to find, they are widely available here.

Thanks guys!!

[Paulus87]

Hi Gregwor, thanks for your reply. It's been a while since you wrote back, and I've been spending a lot of time thinking, researching, posting on other forums too, to try and get my design finalised. I'll recap everything below.

I finally have my door designed! Based on the suggestions of Soundman2020 (Stuart in Santiago, Chile), I have used thick jamb/frame to fill up the excess space on the sides, and the top will be filled by using 2x 4x8 pieces. This design takes into account a 4mm clearance between the door slab and the frame, and an additional 5mm approx between the doorframe and the opening in the wall to fill with backer rod/caulk. Designs below:

Door Design mk1 small.jpeg

Door Design mk1 with door small.jpeg

Given the lack of availability of specialist products over here, I have opted to build my own threshold (design pictures attached).

threshold detail.jpg

threshold detail w jamb small.jpg

From what I could tell, the main advantages of the Zero International thresholds that come recommended all over, are the thermal breaks, and the neoprene seal (as well as being very well designed and built obviously). My design has the seal incorporated in to it. I have also searched far and wide for a rubber seal as close to the GM trunk rubber. On the face of it, the one I have found is not at all similar, but with some re-shaping, I think it will work well enough. (picture attached).

IMG_3115.JPG

IMG_1925.JPG

IMG_5619.JPG

IMG_0401.JPG

Drop seals are a no go over here, so I'm going to get a slot routed out of the door to fit a semi-mortised drop seal at a later date, whenever I next travel back to the UK/USA.

I have sourced backer rod, and an appropriate acoustic caulk to fill in the edges. I think I have sourced some decent heavy-duty hinges too (youll see from the design I plan on using 7 hinges in total).

The door itself will be two 3/4" slabs attached together with screws/glue (wood glue not green glue). the inner slab will be cut 3/4" smaller on top and side edges to achieve the double-seal.

Having got this far, I now have some construction-orientated questions, hopefully someone can help me out, as I feel these points may be pretty fundamental to the success of the door...

1) The substantial door frame itself (made up of 3x8's) is only on the sides and top, not the bottom. The threshold on the bottom is considerably thinner than these very chunky sides/top. Is this a problem? If so, one solution is to put a bottom plate below the threshold, which is below the current level of the floor. Which in some way leads me to my next question...

2) What should the threshold be mounted upon, and in what way? (this also applies to the edges of the frame uprights). Right now the floor is porcelain tiles, which will eventually all be replaced (but not for now). Obviously I don't want to fit the door on top of this, so I will be cutting a section of the porcelain out to fit in the threshold... so, once I've but the space in the porcelain, how should I approach...

a) fill the new recess with concrete to bring it level with the current floor, and attach the threshold to this?

b) fill with some new concrete to level it, then have an additional piece of lumber BEFORE the threshold on top?

Final part of this question - should I be putting a layer of mass-loaded venial between the threshold and the concrete? How do I achieve an airtight seal otherwise? I've attached a photo of the little section in the opening of the porcelain tiles (the dark ones are the studio the light ones are my living room, which will remain.) Picture of the floor below.

IMG_3806.jpg

3) I've searched far and wide for fully-fledged designs of the door, but cant find many. From what I've determined, the sides and top edges have a double seal w/ the recessed second door slab. But what about the bottom edge? As you can see in my design, there is a bottom seal that combines with the sides for the outer slab, but there isn't a secondary inner seal along the bottom edge. Is this correct? Kind of feels like not having a bottom seal would make the other 3 seals on the inner slab kind of redundant? What am I missing here? See close up of my design to see what I mean below...

Threshold w door close up.jpg

They are my major concerns for now. Still have to source a locking/latching mechanism suitable for such a thick door. Door closure, whilst Im haven't looked into it properly yet, will be no problem to find, they are widely available here.

Thanks guys!!

If I were you I would also use some edge seals, ideally the adjustable type. They look like this...

7770A_door_6_(LR).jpg

The other side of the metal is a rubber seal that presses up against the face of the door, all the way round. The adjustable ones are good because if your door or framing shrinks/expands throughout the years then you can just adjust how close the rubber pushes up against the door.

Regarding the drop seals you can also get ones that you fit on the face of the door instead of in a routed out channel on the bottom edge. It might be an easier option since they don't require the channel to be routed out and you won't need to remove the door later in order to fit the drop seal.

Do you have some automatic door closers? Get hydraulic ones. These will keep the doors constantly pressed up against the seals and you will not require a latch. Use a pull handle to open and push plate on the other side.

The other thing I would recommend is you either embed a thick, squared metal bar into the bottom edge of your door threshold or you cover the entire threshold with some aluminium U channel. This is to prevent wear to the wood, which will get knocked and abused from constantly being stepped on and having gear dragged in and out.

Paul

[drummersteve]

Hi Paul,

These are definitely something I'll look into for the future. Here in Ecuador, nothing of this sort is available, and shipping over here is just out of the question due to high shipping prices and even higher import taxes/duties. For now, I'm having to make do with what I've been able to source locally.

Drop seal-wise, its an option that isnt definitely going to happen, so perhaps the door face mounted one would be better. If I achieve the isolation I need, I wont worry with the additional hassle! Only time will tell with that one.

Yes, I have been looking into hydraulic door openers too, and someone else somewhere else suggested a ball-latch to help the door stay in place a bit more, without the need of drilling huge holes into the door itself. Thanks for the suggestion!

And yes, its a very good point that over time the wooden threshold will become very battered no doubt. I don't envisage huge amounts of gear being lugged in and out, as its mainly for personal use, but nonetheless ill obviously be walking through the door every day, and no doubt ill step on the threshold at times too!

Thanks for your comments