Building out a drum practice room in the basement

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MJPDrums
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:21 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Building out a drum practice room in the basement

Post by MJPDrums »

First and foremost, hello! And thank you for setting up this awesome community! My name is Mike and I live in Long Island, NY. I was super excited when I found this forum and have had it bookmarked for a while waiting until I bought a house and was ready to refinish the basement and that time has finally come. It has been a resource for me in the planning stages and as I begin to get ready to execute the plan, I was hoping for some last minute advise or opinions to make sure I do this right the first time.

THE OVERVIEW:

The area: the basement, located underneath the main floor of the house, directly under the living room, dining room and kitchen. Approximately 400 sq ft in total, but only about 260 or so will be used for the project. The remainder will be for storage, washer/dryer and/or foundational utilities (gas, furnace, boiler, etc.). The ceiling is 7’ high in most areas. The area has a metal support beam going across the middle(ish) of the basement and the HVAC system that brings the ceiling in those areas down to about 6’ 6”.

Current layout:
Current Layout 750.jpg
The room: a practice room, primarily for the drums. It may be used for some light recording, but only to track ideas and concepts—not final products.

Planned layout:
Final Floor Plan Top 750.jpg
The idea was to keep the space as wide open as possible, leaving the main area as basically one big room where my desk and drums will be setup, including an open sitting area for bandmates or buds who come over to jam.

THE CONCERNS

The primary concern is the noise going to the living/dining room / kitchen directly above the basement and to the Den/main house staircase through the door/stairwell going down to the basement. Because this is a split level home, the stairs going up from the basement are a half-pace staircase that travels four floors from the basement to the upstairs bedroom floor. So any noise that goes into that stair case (I presume) will reverberate throughout the whole house.

A secondary concern, which I become less concerned with each time I test/think about it, is noise leaving the house from the basement. I will go into more detail in this latter in the “how loud am I?” section but I’m not too worried about it.

THE DECIBEL METER

All the readings in this post were made by an Extech 407730 Digital Sound Level Meter with the slow settings measuring DBC/DBA as indicated unless otherwise specified. The meter I used is here: https://tinyurl.com/ydhd5mce

HOW LOUD AM I?

The drums, measured above the front of the bass drum at drummer-head height maxed out at 115.

Directly upstairs from the drums, the baseline is 53 DBC and sub-40 DBA and when playing the drums it reaches a maximum of 85 DBC and 75 DBA).

Outside: Baseline DBA is 46-53 depending on the time of day, Baseline DBC is about 63. The highest change in decibels when playing the drums near a property line occurred in my backyard and was about 65 DBC and about 55 DBA. That area was the most “vulnerable” part of the outside as there are two basement windows on that side of the house.

We live on about .25 acre with about 50 feet separating either house on our side. There are no windows on the neighbor-sides of the basement, and when you stand outside the house, you only hear the drums from the windows in the front and rear. Even at that, the sound is so low that when I stand by the fence separating either neighbor, I don’t hear it much at all as indicated by the decibel readings above. This is likely aided by the fact that I live relatively close to a major highway (which for once is a good thing) and therefore the baseline is a little high. The windows down there are old, BROKEN single pane windows, so I imaging replacing them with double pane windows will make enough different to not be concerned about this at all-but still throwing it in here in case anyone has some input. Additionally, the plan has the washer/dryer room containing those two windows (it’s unfortunate, but there really is no other place to put those units without changing all the piping and making new drywells which I’m just not doing) so there will be an additional wall separating the drums from those two windows as well.

EXISTING CONSTRUCTION:

Floorplan for existing construction is below:
Current Layout 750.jpg
The overall space is approximately 20’ by 20’ 6”. There is a door at the top of the basement stairs, then 5 steps that lead to the basement from the den (which is on a concrete slab). To the left is a cedar closet that is staying. Also on the left wall is a built out box around the gas unit (which will stay and be turned into an entertainment console) and another box in the corner housing the water main. In between the two boxes on that wall is a 32 x 18” window. In the back right corner of the room is the pump up for the bathroom extension (garage conversion). It is a movable/replaceable/self-contained pump-up approximately 24” x 24”. About 4.5 feet to the right of that unit is the hot water heater which is adjacent to the gas furnace. In the center of the room there is a 6” metal beam that supports the house across the basement and is indicated with dotted lines in the above image. There is a vertical beam supporting this horizontal beam in three locations: against the wall opposite the staircase, immediately to the right of the staircase (about the 2nd step up) and in the center of the room, approximately 9’ 10” from the staircase wall. The beam is 3” round.

The gas furnace leads to ducts (obviously) that drop the ceiling to 6’ 6” in the areas indicated in red on the image below. There is an intake vent above the drum-side of the basement (green square) and one output vent (blue square) which is very easily moveable and perhaps easy to make a soundbox for?
Current Layout 750 RED.jpg
Final Floor Plan Top 750 RED.jpg
Outside of the boxes for the utilities (which are just 2x3 stud boxes which are just frames) and the cedar closet (which is finished with cedar lining on the inside and drywall on the outside). There is no material on the walls or ceiling. The walls are poured concrete and the floor is also concrete.

The ceilings beams are 2x8s, 16” apart on center. There was standard fiberglass insulation in-between the ceiling beams but about 1/3 of it has fallen out, leaving many of the areas in-between the beams completely empty. The insulation that remains is old and brittle and falling out more and more each passing day.

Above the ceiling beams sit a wooden subfloor. Above that there are two different floorings. The areas highlighted in blue in the picture below have natural wood floors above them. The areas highlighted in green in the picture below have ¾” plywood below ceramic tile.
Current Layout 750 floor.jpg
Final Floor Plan Top 750 floor.jpg
Here's what the area looks like right now:
From the top of the stairs:
Top of stairs.jpg
From the bottom of the stairs:
Bottom of Stairs.jpg
From the bottom right corner (washer):
Bottom Right (washer).jpg
From the bottom left corner (cedar closet):
Bottom Left Corner (closet).jpg
From the top left corner (water main):
Back LEft Corner (Watermain).jpg
From the top right corner (pump up):
Back Right (Pump Up).jpg
And a pick of the different heights of ceilings:
20200505_211047.jpg

THE REQUIRED RESULTS:

The required results is unfortunately not specifically determinable. I live with my wife, which is the only person I am concerned about upsetting/annoying with the drums/loud music downstairs. I’ve played the drums in the basement as-is and she tells me that its fine the way it is and that as long as I don’t play when she’s sleeping (which I wouldn’t in any case), she’s fine with that. Her exact words were “Any additional sound dampening would be great but not necessary”. Even if she is telling the truth and not just saying that to make me feel better or something, I would still want to do what I can do reduce the noise for her as best I can—within reason. Therefore I’m setting my “required” result as the noise level in the living room directly above the drums at 60 DBA (which is currently at 70 DBA / 85 DBC). But, at the end of the day I’m looking for the best value. If I need to get to 60 DBA and I’m at 61 and it’s going to cost me 2 weeks of labor and $15,000 to get that extra point, then I’m not doing it. At the same time, if I can get 50 DBA and it’s only going to cost me a few hours and another $1,000 I’ll do it. So again, result is flexible based on cost-to-effect ratio, but around 60 DBA or better in the living room is where I’d be happy.

THE PLAN

The layout plan:
Final Floor Plan Top 750.jpg
FFPlan3d1.jpg
FFPlan3d2.jpg
FFplan3d3.jpg
Originally, the plan was to make the basement a sound fortress (the most cost effective way possible). The plan was to:
  • • Change the door at the top of the staircase a solid wood door and soundproof the seals around the door
    • Add a second door at the bottom of the staircase—same thing.
    • Remove all the drywall in the stairwell and use Rockwoll Safe n Sound insulation under the stairs and in the walls of the stairwell and the ceiling and walls throughout the basement.
    • Use two layers of 5/8” fire rated drywall with green glue in-between and staggered such that no two joints line up (for stability more than anything else) on all walls and ceilings.
After doing some research, taking the sound measurements and speaking with the wife I realized a couple of things. First, that is likely overkill for what I need, especially because it doesn’t appear I really need to much of anything in terms of reducing the sound going outside the house. Based on that (and please correct me if I’m wrong) I don’t think I need to worry about soundproofing/dampening anywhere by the ceiling and the staircase. Second, I realized that all that work would likely killed by the HVAC system, which most definitely be the weak point in the project and significantly lessen the result. Finally, my wife doesn’t really care how soundproof the basement is, so I don’t need to go all out (praying I’m not falling into a trap here haha).

So with that being said, the current “plan” is as follows:
  • • Change the door at the top of the staircase t a solid wood door and soundproof the seals around the door
    • Remove the ceiling above the staircase and place Rockwol insulation and cover with 5\8” fire rated drywall
    • Use foam board insulation against the concrete and cover with 5/8” fire rated Drywall on the basement walls
    • Use Rockwoll Safe N Sound insulation in the ceiling and cover with one layer of 5/8” fire rated drywall
I know that the second layer of drywall with the green glue for the ceiling would be a massive improvement and isn’t too expensive, but I have a few concerns about going that route. The first is that my father and I are doing all the work and one layer of 5\8” drywall on the ceiling is hard enough for the two of us, a second layer with potentially messy glue involved sounds like an absolute nightmare, frankly. Second, at that point I feel like I would need an engineer out to the house to make sure the ceiling can take the load as that is a significant amount of weight and I would assume that process could cost me quite a bit more, making it less cost effective of an option. Third, I am still fearful that all that work would be a waste because the HVAC system will be a huge weak point in the entire project. And short of building out a soundbox, which I might be able to do for the output vent but I can’t imagine where I would put one for the intake vent, or just closing the HVAC system in the basement, I assume the HVAC will be my ceiling in terms of reduction.

BUIDGET:

I’m looking at around $3,000-$8,000 in budget not including the floor. Though I can go higher than that if the value is there. Value, at the end of the day, is more important than the overall budget.

QUESTIONS:

1. Will my current plan obtain a desired result of approximately 15 decibel reduction to the floor above?

2. Does soundproofing my walls have a significant effect on the sound that transfers to the ceiling?

3. If I do 2 layers of sheetrock and green glue on the ceiling, do I need to have an engineer come out?

4. Is it worth the effort it to do the 2 layers + green glue on the ceiling?

5. The ceiling beam in the center of the room will separate the ceiling into two parts. If I do just a single layer of 5/8’ drywall over the green portion of the below image and do the 2 layers with green glue over the blue portion (which is where the drums will be), would that be an effective use of resources? Or would not having the same mass on the other side of the room greatly reduce the effectiveness?
Final Floor Plan Top 750 floor.jpg
6. Alternatively, I have considered using resilient channel on the ceiling with one layer of drywall. Will that have similar effects as two layers of drywall with the green glue? I was considering the option because it was cheaper and much easier to install than two layers of sheetrock, but my research indicated that it may actually worsen the problem because of how small the air gap would be?

7. How much better is the Rockwol Insulation compared to normal insulation? Is it worth the nearly 2x cost? Especially considering I already have a good amount of old fiberglass insulation already in the ceiling that I could reuse to save some $$.

8. How concerned should I be about the HVAC system?
  • 8a. Is there anything I can do about the HVAC system? I think I can make a box for the output vent, because we are building a wall just to support that vent anyway. The intake, however, I have no idea what I would do.
9. Is there anything I’m missing here? Is there a more efficient way to do things or perhaps a variable I’m not taking into consideration?

Thank you all for any and all help provided! If you need any more information please let me know and if there is anything I can do to repay the favor, please don’t hesitate to ask!
Gregwor
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Posts: 1501
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:03 pm
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada

Re: Building out a drum practice room in the basement

Post by Gregwor »

Welcome! Sorry about the late reply. I've been swamped and having troubles keeping up on the forum!
1. Will my current plan obtain a desired result of approximately 15 decibel reduction to the floor above?
15dB improvement is a lot and there are a lot of variables to consider. Remember, your max isolation is determined by your weakest link. So, if you miss any section of your room (a bad seal on your door, your windows, your hvac, electrical penetrations, etc) it's all over and you're only going to slightly improve your isolation. At this stage, you're going to even have to consider how sealed up your stairs are. . .
2. Does soundproofing my walls have a significant effect on the sound that transfers to the ceiling?
As I wrote in question # 1, your ceiling is completely separate in terms of isolation.
3. If I do 2 layers of sheetrock and green glue on the ceiling, do I need to have an engineer come out?
Hard to say. Realistically, I'd be very surprised if your joists couldn't handle that weight. I mean, even older 120 year old homes were filled with heavy tube televisions and upright pianos so adding an extra sheet of drywall shouldn't be an issue but please don't take my word for it. I've been in some homes that where super super sketchy and built using materials that made me shake my head.
4. Is it worth the effort it to do the 2 layers + green glue on the ceiling?
I 100% think so. Green Glue Compound is easy and clean to work with actually. Remember, you don't have to tape/mud your first layer. Just run a thick bead of caulk along the seams then put up your second layer of drywall. With a drywall lift (buy one used cheap), it will be quite an easy job.
5. The ceiling beam in the center of the room will separate the ceiling into two parts. If I do just a single layer of 5/8’ drywall over the green portion of the below image and do the 2 layers with green glue over the blue portion (which is where the drums will be), would that be an effective use of resources? Or would not having the same mass on the other side of the room greatly reduce the effectiveness?
Keep your surface density equal throughout the ENTIRE room. Remember, your limited by your weakest link.
6. Alternatively, I have considered using resilient channel on the ceiling with one layer of drywall. Will that have similar effects as two layers of drywall with the green glue? I was considering the option because it was cheaper and much easier to install than two layers of sheetrock, but my research indicated that it may actually worsen the problem because of how small the air gap would be?
In my opinion it's actually way more money and way harder to install. You're also going to be limited as to what/how much acoustic treatment you can install as the clips have weight limits.
7. How much better is the Rockwol Insulation compared to normal insulation? Is it worth the nearly 2x cost? Especially considering I already have a good amount of old fiberglass insulation already in the ceiling that I could reuse to save some $$.
For the cavities use whatever insulation you have. Just make sure you don't have compress the insulation and make sure you don't have any voids. For acoustic treatment, you should use specific insulation.
8. How concerned should I be about the HVAC system?

8a. Is there anything I can do about the HVAC system? I think I can make a box for the output vent, because we are building a wall just to support that vent anyway. The intake, however, I have no idea what I would do.
Be very concerned. It's critical for health/staying alive haha. But also to prevent moisture from completely destroying your home. What you can do is properly design a system that will provide comfort and keep your home safe from moisture. There are countless threads on the forum covering this stuff for you to research.
9. Is there anything I’m missing here? Is there a more efficient way to do things or perhaps a variable I’m not taking into consideration?
There is no one way to do this. What it really boils down to is how motivated you are and what your budget is. Luckily you don't need to do anything (according to your wife) so there's no real pressure to have a perfectly performing room. Like every other thread on this forum, I can't stress enough how important it is to super accurately 3D model your space. This will reveal any areas you've forgotten to deal with. Again, make sure there is not a single area of your room that lacks surface density or sealing. Those two aspects are what are going to get you the isolation you need.
Thank you all for any and all help provided! If you need any more information please let me know and if there is anything I can do to repay the favor, please don’t hesitate to ask!
That's kind of you to offer. John pays monthly/yearly to host this site so if you're able to use the donate button at the top of the page, any money would help. Thank you!

Greg
It appears that you've made the mistake most people do. You started building without consulting this forum.
notmebug
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Building out a drum practice room in the basement

Post by notmebug »

Hello, I would like to say about the second point. I am engaged in the construction of studios and am responsible for sound insulation. The ceiling is not a decisive factor. The ceiling vibrates more than transmits sound, so doors will be the main source of sound. I advise you to contact https://gezit-doors.com/, we have been cooperating with them for a long time, they will be able to deliver doors with excellent sound insulation to you.
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