John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi everyone,

I recently moved into a new home with an unfinished basement and I am hoping to finally carve out a space that is my own. I have read through the forum rules and sticky notes and also have some experience with acoustic treatment so I will try not to ask stupid questions. To keep things on point, I've tried to follow the format as best I can.

Overview/Goal

Although the basement is a good size, I also have a young daughter and another on the way so it will be shared with them as they grow up and with my wife. We have a small gym area there as well and a storage/furnace room leaving only a 12.5 x 13' space to work with. It is a bit of an L shape if I exclude the section under the stairs. I know from research here and elsewhere that the dream of a live room and control/mix room are out the window unless I use another room somewhere else in the house. I would have loved that but I think the space already quite tight, will be best served as a all in one room. As I drum and play guitar, my goal would be to soundproof the space as best I can. If the drums can be heard but sound like a radio is on in the basement.., I'm happy. A truly sound proof space is a challenging design and ultimately comes down to mass and density. In terms of what I expect to achieve with this project, would be legacy projects (fun, creativity), to practice mixing,jam with my band, and to one day record my daughter and hopefully get her interested in music.

Dimensions

As mentioned, the space is 12.5 ft on the far outer wall (with the amps for reference), 13 ft on the long open side, and 8.5ft to the stairs. The ceilings are 8 ft' except for the section behind the stairs where it is 7 ft'. There is a lowered landing for a mudroom above and that's why it is designed that way. (unfortunately) The outer walls of the basement are already framed and insulated, the challenges are the I-beam, plumbing, and ductwork that jumps the joist. That will likely mean multiple bulk heads.

Questions/Assumptions

I'm assuming that to truly be "soundproof", I would need to decouple. Room inside a room is the general way to go but I am wondering how far to a significant volume cut I can achieve if the outer walls stay as they are, user resilient channel with two layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue between the boards? The inside walls and ceiling would be double 5/8 again and insulated. I would envision one door with a seal on it and electrical would be limited to lights and outlets on separate breakers and with only 2-3 putty wrapped outlets cut in the walls or ceiling. Everything else would be surface run to cut down on air gaps. All joints would be sealed and for ventilation I would have to build an insulated box of some sort to cut down noise. Flooring will be the standard overlay and laminate of some type. Drums are loud though...and we all know that bass finds ways to travel through a house.

Layout

I'm thinking looking at my limited space, that drums might be best served in an area where the ceiling is highest? Guitar amps could be in the area under the landing where the ceiling is 7ft because guitars tend to be more close mic'd. (and can be gobo'd around) The standard bass trapping in corners, early reflection points, cloud over drums, and cloud over mixing area would apply. But where would be the best place to put the studio desk at that point?? Shortest wall is usually best is it not? What would be the challenges or instruments and drums sitting in the same place I would mix? Would there be any room for diffusion of any type to keep some highs in the room?

To think OTTB, what if I kept that mixing area/studio desk outside the tracking room and made it part of the common area in the basement? I'm guessing that if i plan to use monitors to mix anything, I can forget about any type of accurate mix in there. I just wonder if that space is too small for everything to comfortably fit.

Budget

I've got about 2500-5000$ to put towards electrical and I'd say about 8-10K for the room. I can frame everything with my brother eventually once this pandemic is over so the building side of things will be the easiest part. It is more the design and keeping everything into consideration which is challenging.

Please see attached photos and the PDF sketch I made. I think it is pretty clear in the photos however but if you have any questions, please let me know!

That's awesome that you want to get your daughter into music! Unfortunately that is a tricky room to make work with all of the plumbing and duct work. I don't have an answer about the results you'll achieve with clips and hat but at this point I think that might be your best bet because I'm not sure how you'd frame your wall such that it could safely hold up a fully decoupled inside out ceiling. I can say that my buddy has a clip and hat room to practice drums in the basement of his duplex and it's working alright for him. The biggest concern with that type of ceiling construction is weight limitations. Ceilings need a lot of treatment and if you're eating up your weight restriction with drywall, that doesn't leave much for treatment.

For HVAC, if you're doing clips and hat, you won't really be able to hang a silencer box off of your walls or ceiling so you might have to just have one massive one outside of the room made out of super thick material. Also, this opens up the question about what you plan to do for heating and cooling because you probably can't just drive your existing furnace ductwork into a silencer box as they introduce a lot of static pressure. The last thing you want is the temperature in your house all screwed up because of your music room! You might have to get an HRV and ductless minisplit for your room. That = lots of money though.

Have you investigated re-routing some of the duct work? Maybe you could pop some through some joists and then have them go over the main beam? The less bulk heads you have the better, of course.

Lastly, you're going to have to box in any of the mechanical stuff (plumbing/hvac/etc), make an air tight outer leaf that has good mass, THEN have your clips/hat after that. So, for example, you'd frame up around that plumbing and then box it in using something like 1" MDF. Then, at least a few inches away from that sheathing, you'd build another wall that would hold your clips, hat, and drywall. Also, I recommend using thick OSB, then green glue, then 5/8" heavy (NOT ultralight!!!) drywall on that. This will allow you to mount treatment anywhere --- still always be aware of where your studs are so that you don't short circuit the system!!!

That's all I can address right now but I hope that gives you some things to think about!

Greg

Thanks for the reply...yes, it is definitely a tricky space to work with but unfortunately, the only one I have. The other side of the basement has more ductwork, the main send trunk and water lines running down in so this is the only place that is nicely tucked away from the main area. I might be able to reroute that one duct that dips below the beam but it would then be coming out of the lower wall in the mudroom vs. the floor. I'd also be left with a hole in that tile and potentially room for air/sound to travel. I also would probably face the wrath from my wife on butchering a new home lol.

Would you happen to know which clip and hat product your friend used for his room? Did he just use the channel over existing framing and then clips with green glue/ doubled up 5/8 drywall? I know that I will have to lower my expectations a bit but if the drums can be played and are a low rumble on the top floor than I am happy with that. My only worry is the weight of it all. Looks like most people don't do channels on the ceiling and just go doubled up drywall here with green glue. Is that for strength because the fear of the drywall pulling away from the channel ? For the large drainage pipe, I was thinking because space is tight as it is, of just wrapping it in insulation and then doing a bulkhead with roxul in the gaps, then channel/clip and double drywall. Not going to completely cut sound, but probably adequately enough for it not to matter much with close mic'd drums and guitars. I do like your idea though so it is worth measuring.

HVAC is the tricky one. When trying to seal a room, you need ventilation of some type. I thought even of just a stand lone section of duct punched in the wall connecting it to the rest of the basement (almost like a port or this https://www.amazon.com/Tamarack-Technol ... B0089XVVQC) to help with heat/cooling and then supplementing with a fan or space heater given the season. Problem with that of course, is that there goes your sound escaping. Basements here tend to run cool in the summer so it would really be more for heat in the winter and a small heater would do the trick i would think. Humidity becomes a dehumidifier job but yes, how well everything is "circulating" in that room is an important question.

I feel ultimately, there are going to have to be some sacrifices. Another plan I suppose is to buy one of those overpriced whisper rooms for drums but once you try and get a small band to jam together, you run into space issues. If it were just guitars I would have an iso closet and then just treat a room and worry less about "air tight".

Would you happen to know which clip and hat product your friend used for his room?

http://www.acoustiguard.com/images/pdf/ ... ctions.pdf

Did he just use the channel over existing framing and then clips with green glue/ doubled up 5/8 drywall?

I actually don't remember. I always recommend putting a sheet of OSB first so that you have more mounting options for treatment.

My only worry is the weight of it all. Looks like most people don't do channels on the ceiling and just go doubled up drywall here with green glue.

You can see that the product is designed to be used on ceilings. You need to be careful when installing treatment as it will add quite a bit of weight.

I thought even of just a stand lone section of duct punched in the wall connecting it to the rest of the basement

If you want to maintain your isolation you NEED a silencer box. A real one. A real home made one! Actually, you need TWO! One for supply, one for return. That's the only way.

Another plan I suppose is to buy one of those overpriced whisper rooms for drums but once you try and get a small band to jam together, you run into space issues.

These are a joke. Don't waste any time even thinking about using one.

Greg