John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi all, Matt here from San Diego, CA.

Just finished tearing down the old paneling in the basement underneath the living room in our house and starting the planning phase (soundproof/design) for the new studio. The space was originally a crawl space but the first owner dug down and made a multipurpose room built in the early 60’s. So about half the room has earth behind 3 of its walls. Ive been writing and recording music for TV/Web for 10 years now and excited to finally have a studio of my my own to do full production in!

Hoping to stop as much sound as possible coming in and going out. The ceiling being the biggest concern from foot traffic and TV above me. My closest neighbor is 20 feet from studio door and never has a complaint. I have yet to record any drums in here but waiting till construction is complete. I purchased a Extech meter and put it in middle of room. Playing a fairly loud guitar through amp I got a reading of 100.0 db (“A’” weighting on “Slow”) I suspect when I record drums one day that level would go up…

The ceiling is 8’ 4” from floor to bottom of the joist. The 2x6 joist are 16” on center and the Framing is 2x4’s 16” on center as well. 3 6x4 beams reinforced with steal I-Beam. The two corner exterior walls are 3/4” thick stucco. The lower part of the walls (underground) are cement backed with earth. The interior walls are basic 16” on center framing with old sheet paneling, Cement slab floor


My budget is around $5000 Hoping the make this an optimal room for mixing and live tracking

Questions and concerns:

1. Ive been tearing the forum apart researching other studio construction. Any advice or links on sound proofing this room would be greatly appreciated. Im studying and hoping to successfully suspend the ceiling (living room above) and same with the walls using the RSIC and Hat Channel. Is that the way to go?

2. I want to make the room optimal for mixing so I can do all production in-house as much as possible. Ive seen what others have done to similar rooms but any hints or design ideas would be greatly appreciated. Ive never built anything like this in my life:)

3. Ive got two JBL 4311’s Monitors I want to use in the corners (over bass traps?) behind the desk. Whats the best way to approach that? 30 degree angle? How high?

4. Using “SketchUp free” can I share the web version of the 3D file on the forum?



Thank you so much for taking the time to read all this and suffering my inexperience. Cant wait to hear back!

Cheers
- Matt G

Hi all, Matt here from San Diego, CA.

Welcome! Glad to have you!

Ive been writing and recording music for TV/Web for 10 years now and excited to finally have a studio of my my own to do full production in!

Hoping to stop as much sound as possible coming in and going out.

I assume you mean within your budget and ability because you could stop a LOT but it would cost a LOT of money (6 figures +)

The ceiling being the biggest concern from foot traffic and TV above me.

I personally feel your pain here. The only way to stop this is to decouple the ceiling from your inner leaf.

Playing a fairly loud guitar through amp I got a reading of 100.0 db (“A’” weighting on “Slow”) I suspect when I record drums one day that level would go up…

You need to measure in C weighting as it takes low frequencies into consideration. And low frequencies are the problematic ones that we need to be aware of and try to block.

My budget is around $5000 Hoping the make this an optimal room for mixing and live tracking

I hate to be the guy to say it, but I don't think this is enough to achieve what you need. The cheaper, easier, and not super effective way to get some isolation is clips + hat + sheathing and even the materials to do that are going to chew a huge hole into your budget. You then need to have HVAC and electrical in your room. HVAC is necessary in an air tight room. The cheapest I can build a single door where I live is upwards of $1000.

1. Ive been tearing the forum apart researching other studio construction. Any advice or links on sound proofing this room would be greatly appreciated. Im studying and hoping to successfully suspend the ceiling (living room above) and same with the walls using the RSIC and Hat Channel. Is that the way to go?

It sure will help but it won't be perfect because you still have a mechanical connection. I have several friends who have done this and they still can hear people walking upstairs, slightly. The forum has endless examples and info for your design. Continue to tear the forum apart and ask the questions you can't find answers to. The search feature is very powerful and awesome.

2. I want to make the room optimal for mixing so I can do all production in-house as much as possible. Ive seen what others have done to similar rooms but any hints or design ideas would be greatly appreciated. Ive never built anything like this in my life:)

In the design forum you'll see that there are specs to try to meet to get a great listening/mixing room. This all starts from step 1, being the layout of your room.

3. Ive got two JBL 4311’s Monitors I want to use in the corners (over bass traps?) behind the desk. Whats the best way to approach that? 30 degree angle? How high?

Also in the design forum, there are countless threads covering soffit mounting aka flush mounting speakers. It sounds like you want an RFZ style control room. To directly answer your question, there is no one angle that would work for every scenario. You have to experiment doing ray tracing in order to find the perfect angles and positions for your soffits, soffit wings, cloud and listening position.

4. Using “SketchUp free” can I share the web version of the 3D file on the forum?

The web browser based "free" version of SketchUp is painful to use. It's so slow and crappy. Go here:

https://help.sketchup.com/en/downloading-older-versions

You can find the newest version of SketchUp Make that will run on your system. They stopped developing it in 2017 but it runs awesome and is the way to go. When you go to share .skp files with us here, I suggest going into model info and purging all unused. Hopefully this will make the file small enough to upload on the forum. If it doesn't, I suggest posting a few pictures on here (2D exports) and also upload your .skp on drop box or google drive or some place like that that will hopefully hold it forever for future forum members to check out. Also, go file save as and save it as an older version such as SketchUp 2014. That will allow people to easily open it in any version of SketchUp they have.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all this and suffering my inexperience. Cant wait to hear back!

No problem.

I'd like to point out that you should flip the orientation of your room around. You need a perfectly symmetrical room which won't be achievable with your current layout. Also, the door way will be in the way of your soffit wing. Flip your room around and you'll fix both of those issues. Also, ditch the vocal booth. Your control room will sound great for vocal recording.

Greg

Greg thank you for ALL this and getting back to me so fast!


I agree with ya on my budged:) Im seeing that that number is mostly for sealing the room up. Also my good friend is donating a BRAND NEW wall mount "Mini-Split" HVAC system. Thank God for change orders, I just have to pay to have it installed!


Heres the new Sound Level reading:
Range set on "Hi"
C Weight on "Slow" = meter jumped around between 104db - 107db while playing



And yes I will defiantly will flip the room around 180 to have the desk facing the opposite wall


Looking into Sketch Up 2014-17 today... are the older versions free to use?


Talk to ya soon, Thanks1
-MG

forgot to mention that I did make this in Sketch Up Pro 2019 on the free trial but it has since ran out. Downloaded 2017 but it wont let me open my 2019 version file

Says its too new to open in 2017, Damn

That said I do have the original .skp saved on my computer. Can I post that? Im just unable to purge it

wait, never mind I figured it out. Attached below is a dropbox link to my updated SketchUp 2017 .skp file...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/by5usyxu210f ... ZjoJa?dl=0

Good stuff Matt.

Your Sketchup looks pretty good so far. I would suggest hiding everything that you have in layers right now, then select all (the rest of the drawing) and hit G making it all one component then put that in a layer called whatever.. something like "existing" or something like that. You'll see that it will become impossible to draw your soffits and stuff like that since all of your Layer0 crap will be in the way. From now on, any time you draw anything as simple as a 2x4, draw it, or a part of it, then hit G making it a component. After that, assign it to a layer (like soffit frame for example). After you have one 2x4 drawn, you can easily copy/duplicate it. If you're on a Mac, you just hit M to choose your move tool. Then while holding option, click and drag out a duplicate. You can then push any of your keyboard arrows to lock the duplicate to an axis as you move it. If you want to make the 2x4 a different size, right click on the newly duplicated 2x4 component and "make unique". Now, you can change it however you want without screwing up the other ones. Now, you can assign the new duplicate to whatever layer you want as well (such as soffit wing). Components, layers and inference are the 3 main things you can't overlook on SketchUp.

Greg

Awesome thanks! I’ll get on it...

OK fixed my SketchUp model as instructed
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/by5usyxu210f ... ZjoJa?dl=0



Also had a quick question. Starting to treat the studio ceiling (bottom of living room subfloor) Do I need to fill in the subfloor gaps with acoustic caulk before I add the drywall in-between the joist?


-MG

Matt G wrote:OK fixed my SketchUp model as instructed
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/by5usyxu210f ... ZjoJa?dl=0



Also had a quick question. Starting to treat the studio ceiling (bottom of living room subfloor) Do I need to fill in the subfloor gaps with acoustic caulk before I add the drywall in-between the joist?


-MG

If it was me, then yes I would. It will add mass to the subfloor and will be an extra fail safe if any of the perimeter seals should fail.

Paul

Cool, thanks Paul

Agreed. I would cut all the nails using snips. Use a grinder for any hard thick screws. Caulk it all as if it were your final layer and make it air tight. Then add the drywall. If you're adding more than 1 layer of drywall, caulk each layer.

Greg

Thanks Greg!

More questions!!!


1. Currently designing my MSM. My existing walls are so weird being part concrete with framing on top. As far as my outer leaf wall is concerned, should/can I use a different ISO clip other than the RISC-1 that I'm using to suspending my ceiling? I attached pictures of the clips in question from the brand IsoTRAX and another from IsoMAX...


2. My north wall (new console/monitor side) is the only "traditional" existing wall in the room. Was designing that wall around the double frame approach (pic below) Would you recommend that or just a single MSM wall with Iso clips/Hat Channel on then two layers of drywall for the inner leaf.


3.On my south and west walls I've added 2 layers of 5/8 drywall in-between the framing for the outer first layer of Mass... right?


Also here the link to my updated SketchUp model:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o27lnv6anio25 ... 7.skp?dl=0



THANK YOU!
-Matt

1. Currently designing my MSM. My existing walls are so weird being part concrete with framing on top. As far as my outer leaf wall is concerned, should/can I use a different ISO clip other than the RISC-1 that I'm using to suspending my ceiling? I attached pictures of the clips in question from the brand IsoTRAX and another from IsoMAX...

You could yes. IsoTRAX looks like crap. Basically just hat with a screw shorting it out not different than plain old hat. IsoMAX looks way better as there is actually rubber partially decoupling the sheathing.

2. My north wall (new console/monitor side) is the only "traditional" existing wall in the room. Was designing that wall around the double frame approach (pic below) Would you recommend that or just a single MSM wall with Iso clips/Hat Channel on then two layers of drywall for the inner leaf.

If the air gap between your inner and outer leaf are the same by just using clips and hat, you could go that way. If it's cheaper, easier, and you don't mind losing the space, you could frame it. Either way, you're limited by the weakest link.. that will be clip + hat. I hope that answers your question well enough! If you frame it, try to stagger the studs though.

3.On my south and west walls I've added 2 layers of 5/8 drywall in-between the framing for the outer first layer of Mass... right?

I'm not sure what the south and west walls are.

Greg

Thanks Greg!

I decided to just do the staggered frame design for that wall instead of the double frame. Save some space




Question: Designing my walls where the lower cement frame part "steps" out.

Would it be acceptable to have the inner leaf mass, thats hanging from the wall studs on clips, drop down to the cement wall "step" without suspending it from the cement part of wall? And of course backing rod and acoustic caulk where wall meets the "step"

These walls are weird! Thanks!
-MG

I think for the amount of isolation you're going after, that concrete section is fine as is. Like you said, just caulk the heck out of the connection point!

Greg