Seeking advice on separation wall

[Paulus87]

Looks good.

Since you'll be removing the drywall on that wall you'll have access to the cavity in to which you can easily put the extra insulation. Just use cheap attic batts, low density, "pink fluffy" (might be yellow or a different colour) whatever you can get hold of for cheap will be fine here. The semi rigid style insulation slabs such as Rockwool etc are too dense for the cavity, so no need to use that.

I haven't asked yet, but how is your ceiling and roof constructed? If you have a cold roof design then how are you going to deal with the roof vents?

Regarding your control room size, is there a constraint? What is the maximum length and width you can make it?

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Looks good.

Since you'll be removing the drywall on that wall you'll have access to the cavity in to which you can easily put the extra insulation. Just use cheap attic batts, low density, "pink fluffy" (might be yellow or a different colour) whatever you can get hold of for cheap will be fine here. The semi rigid style insulation slabs such as Rockwool etc are too dense for the cavity, so no need to use that.

I haven't asked yet, but how is your ceiling and roof constructed? If you have a cold roof design then how are you going to deal with the roof vents?

Regarding your control room size, is there a constraint? What is the maximum length and width you can make it?

Paul

Oh yeah right, with the wall removed I can easily insulate! The ceiling in the live room is a vented scissor joist design with eaves/sophets on the outer shell. I believe everything is good with that. The ceiling in the existing garage is just like any room in a house. My master bedroom is above it so there is no issue there. It has insulation & 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue like the rest of the Pink highlighted outer walls. I included a few new pics so its will be easier.

[Paulus87]

Let’s talk about your live room ceiling/roof first.

So your outer shell IS your roof? And that outer shell has vented soffits?

So in other words your outer shell is not completely air tight?

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Let’s talk about your live room ceiling/roof first.

So your outer shell IS your roof? And that outer shell has vented soffits?

So in other words your outer shell is not completely air tight?

Paul

If your talking about the outer shell (addition) that is the live room, the walls are a 2 leaf but the ceiling 3 leaf because I have 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue facing the inner shell. Not ideal but in DB tests the live room met my needs with neighbors etc.

I have been demoing the wall between the 2 rooms and ran into something I'm worried about. I got the 2 outer layers of Drywall off and when I cut into the 2nd layer I can see above live room outer wall into the joists. I included pics. Is this going to work?

-Jason-

[Paulus87]

Let’s talk about your live room ceiling/roof first.

So your outer shell IS your roof? And that outer shell has vented soffits?

So in other words your outer shell is not completely air tight?

Paul

If your talking about the outer shell (addition) that is the live room, the walls are a 2 leaf but the ceiling 3 leaf because I have 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue facing the inner shell. Not ideal but in DB tests the live room met my needs with neighbors etc.

I have been demoing the wall between the 2 rooms and ran into something I'm worried about. I got the 2 outer layers of Drywall off and when I cut into the 2nd layer I can see above live room outer wall into the joists. I included pics. Is this going to work?

-Jason-

I can't see exactly what's going on...

Maybe someone else can see it? But I really need drawings of all the layers, where the framing is, where the cavities are and how big, where the vents are etc etc otherwise I might give you wrong advice based on my misunderstanding of your build.

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Let’s talk about your live room ceiling/roof first.

So your outer shell IS your roof? And that outer shell has vented soffits?

So in other words your outer shell is not completely air tight?

Paul

If your talking about the outer shell (addition) that is the live room, the walls are a 2 leaf but the ceiling 3 leaf because I have 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue facing the inner shell. Not ideal but in DB tests the live room met my needs with neighbors etc.

I have been demoing the wall between the 2 rooms and ran into something I'm worried about. I got the 2 outer layers of Drywall off and when I cut into the 2nd layer I can see above live room outer wall into the joists. I included pics. Is this going to work?

-Jason-

I can't see exactly what's going on...

Maybe someone else can see it? But I really need drawings of all the layers, where the framing is, where the cavities are and how big, where the vents are etc etc otherwise I might give you wrong advice based on my misunderstanding of your build.

Paul

Here are some links to drawings and some pics.

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/download/ ... p?id=65851

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/download/ ... p?id=65851

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/download/ ... p?id=65852

http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/download/ ... p?id=65853

/Users/jasonnewcomb/Pictures/Photos Library.photoslibrary/resources/media/master/00/00/fullsizeoutput_22.jpeg

[Paulus87]

Hi Jason,

That's great! Thanks for sharing all of that with us, it really helps to understand your project.

So, first thing I want to ask is before you built your inner leaf framing in your live room, did you install drywall (or any other kind of mass) on the bottom cord of the trusses like this? (marked in red)

Screenshot 2020-04-01 at 10.59.26.jpg

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Hi Jason,

That's great! Thanks for sharing all of that with us, it really helps to understand your project.

So, first thing I want to ask is before you built your inner leaf framing in your live room, did you install drywall (or any other kind of mass) on the bottom cord of the trusses like this? (marked in red)

Screenshot 2020-04-01 at 10.59.26.jpg

Paul

Hi Paul,

Yes I did. In the Live Room on the walls I beefed up with 5/8" Drywall in between the studs with backer rod & acoustic caulk. On the ceiling because its a vented roof I couldn't really do a 2 leaf system so I put 2 Layers of Drywall with Green Glue. Thats what were seeing in this pic where I cut away.

[Paulus87]

Great, so you put those two layers of drywall under your attic space (on the bottom of your trusses).

Where THOSE drywall layers meet the rest of your live room wall framing/drywall is it completely sealed at that transition? If so then you're in good shape.


Now, what to do about your new problem.

I can see exactly what's happened, trying to put in to words how to fix it is going to be difficult!

It looks like the roof line of your live room is lower than your roof of the control room (pre-existing garage)

We now need to some how work out how to connect the outer ceiling of your live room and control room together and keep it completely sealed, and also decoupled from your inner ceilings.

a bit of a head scratcher for me, as I believe you've already installed the inner ceiling of the control room area?

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Great, so you put those two layers of drywall under your attic space (on the bottom of your trusses).

Where THOSE drywall layers meet the rest of your live room wall framing/drywall is it completely sealed at that transition? If so then you're in good shape.


Now, what to do about your new problem.

I can see exactly what's happened, trying to put in to words how to fix it is going to be difficult!

It looks like the roof line of your live room is lower than your roof of the control room (pre-existing garage)

We now need to some how work out how to connect the outer ceiling of your live room and control room together and keep it completely sealed, and also decoupled from your inner ceilings.

a bit of a head scratcher for me, as I believe you've already installed the inner ceiling of the control room area?

Paul

I had started the very beginning of framing control room but removed that as well so the existing garage is a empty. Just the outer perimeter is 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue. I wonder if I shouldn't just go with option 2 and just beef up this wall with the inside out approach and hang fabric on what will be exposed. Most of this wall with get swallowed up with control room sitting in front of it anyway.

[Paulus87]

Great, so you put those two layers of drywall under your attic space (on the bottom of your trusses).

Where THOSE drywall layers meet the rest of your live room wall framing/drywall is it completely sealed at that transition? If so then you're in good shape.


Now, what to do about your new problem.

I can see exactly what's happened, trying to put in to words how to fix it is going to be difficult!

It looks like the roof line of your live room is lower than your roof of the control room (pre-existing garage)

We now need to some how work out how to connect the outer ceiling of your live room and control room together and keep it completely sealed, and also decoupled from your inner ceilings.

a bit of a head scratcher for me, as I believe you've already installed the inner ceiling of the control room area?

Paul

I had started the very beginning of framing control room but removed that as well so the existing garage is a empty. Just the outer perimeter is 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue. I wonder if I shouldn't just go with option 2 and just beef up this wall with the inside out approach and hang fabric on what will be exposed. Most of this wall with get swallowed up with control room sitting in front of it anyway.

Either option 1 or option 2 will work fine, but first you need to seal the live room outer ceiling to the outer ceiling of the garage area.

Disregard your "third leaf" which is your roof, imagine it's not there for a second, as it does not contribute to your isolation due to the vents making it leaky, it is not even really a leaf in that sense.

So now, treating the ceiling that is on the bottom of your trusses as your outer leaf - imagine that the garage and the new addition of your live room are one big empty box which you have lined with two layers of drywall and sealed air tight. Then within that box you build your individual rooms i.e. the live room, control room etc.

Right now you have a big hole in your outer leaf of the entire building.

Hope that makes sense?

So regardless of which option you go for you still need to access the rest of that area (in your picture with the hole knocked through) and put some extra drywall/framing/sealing/whatever it takes to join the garage and outer leaf of your live room.

Once that is done then you can build the inner leaf of your control room.

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Great, so you put those two layers of drywall under your attic space (on the bottom of your trusses).

Where THOSE drywall layers meet the rest of your live room wall framing/drywall is it completely sealed at that transition? If so then you're in good shape.


Now, what to do about your new problem.

I can see exactly what's happened, trying to put in to words how to fix it is going to be difficult!

It looks like the roof line of your live room is lower than your roof of the control room (pre-existing garage)

We now need to some how work out how to connect the outer ceiling of your live room and control room together and keep it completely sealed, and also decoupled from your inner ceilings.

a bit of a head scratcher for me, as I believe you've already installed the inner ceiling of the control room area?

Paul

I had started the very beginning of framing control room but removed that as well so the existing garage is a empty. Just the outer perimeter is 2 layers of Drywall with Green Glue. I wonder if I shouldn't just go with option 2 and just beef up this wall with the inside out approach and hang fabric on what will be exposed. Most of this wall with get swallowed up with control room sitting in front of it anyway.

Either option 1 or option 2 will work fine, but first you need to seal the live room outer ceiling to the outer ceiling of the garage area.

Disregard your "third leaf" which is your roof, imagine it's not there for a second, as it does not contribute to your isolation due to the vents making it leaky, it is not even really a leaf in that sense.

So now, treating the ceiling that is on the bottom of your trusses as your outer leaf - imagine that the garage and the new addition of your live room are one big empty box which you have lined with two layers of drywall and sealed air tight. Then within that box you build your individual rooms i.e. the live room, control room etc.

Right now you have a big hole in your outer leaf of the entire building.

Hope that makes sense?

So regardless of which option you go for you still need to access the rest of that area (in your picture with the hole knocked through) and put some extra drywall/framing/sealing/whatever it takes to join the garage and outer leaf of your live room.

Once that is done then you can build the inner leaf of your control room.

Paul

I think I understand what your saying but dot really know how I would access doing that. I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

[Paulus87]

Well it really is not optional, if you want all that hard work you've done building double walls etc to not be compromised. Isolation is only as good as it's weakest link... right now you have a big weak link with that gap. If it was a fish tank then all of the water would come gushing out quicker than you could refill it... it's the same with sound isolation, just air instead of water.

Since you are tearing the panels off of that wall anyway I would go ahead and rip them all out, then you'll be able to access that part of the framing. Then patch it up so that it connects to your garage ceiling, caulk the hell out of all the seams and any gaps or cracks. It doesn't need to look pretty (it's not going to be seen) it just needs to be completely sealed so that there is no gaps or holes between the garage and the live room. Then you'll have a continuous leaf all the way round your entire building.

Obviously the inner leaf of the live room needs to remain completely unconnected to that leaf.

Paul

[Soulshaker]

Well it really is not optional, if you want all that hard work you've done building double walls etc to not be compromised. Isolation is only as good as it's weakest link... right now you have a big weak link with that gap. If it was a fish tank then all of the water would come gushing out quicker than you could refill it... it's the same with sound isolation, just air instead of water.

Since you are tearing the panels off of that wall anyway I would go ahead and rip them all out, then you'll be able to access that part of the framing. Then patch it up so that it connects to your garage ceiling, caulk the hell out of all the seams and any gaps or cracks. It doesn't need to look pretty (it's not going to be seen) it just needs to be completely sealed so that there is no gaps or holes between the garage and the live room. Then you'll have a continuous leaf all the way round your entire building.

Obviously the inner leaf of the live room needs to remain completely unconnected to that leaf.

Paul

I’m willing to do it if I could wrap my head around it. I’m looking at this pic and the ceiling of live room framing is connected to the wall. I don’t see the breach. The ceiling of existing garage and the ceiling of outer wall in live room meet together on this framing. There is a layer of OSB and Drywall between them in the live room side.

[Paulus87]

Hi Jason,

I sent you a PM as it might be quicker to chat instantly rather than on a forum?

Anyway, I think our wires got crossed somewhere as I was thinking this wall was to be part of your inner shell framing for your control room.

I'll direct you back to one of my earlier posts - all you really need to do is NOT treat that wall like a wall, just treat it as a framework for holding up your garage

As long as the outer leaf live room framing is connected to that garage then the panels on this problematic wall are not needed. You can take all of them off, you'll ONLY need some drywall where your live room outer leaf (not the roof, the leaf below the roof and above your inner ceiling) meets your current garage ceiling, so in other words you'll have 2 layers of drywall on the garage side that follow the live room diagonal ceiling line, completing the continuous, unbroken outer leaf for the whole building. You'll have to cut in some drywall to fit between your framing, so that the drywall on the live room framing actually connects to the new drywall, that you're going to apply on the garage side, otherwise there will be a gap. Don't forget to seal all the seams with caulk.

Then you can frame your control room in front of it, not touching that framing.

So then that mostly naked framing will just sit in the cavity between the live room and control room, which is fine. You can insulate the whole void between your live room and control room, the framing will just sit there in the middle of that insulation. It is not touching your live room or control room framing so it's fine.

The areas around your control room will be made up of your current garage walls and part of the sides of the problematic wall, so you'll put some drywall back on the framing there and then you'll build more framing and continue that wall around your control room walls, not touching. Those will become your outer shell for your control room, along with the rest of the existing garage walls and ceiling.