New Vocal Booth Build

[Gregwor]

Speaking of caulking, I spent a long time trying to sort out exactly how to deal with that and the drywalling. Read up a bunch in Rod’s book and searched here a ton. Just to make sure I’m not missing anything: I install the first layer of drywall and can caulk the whole perimeter of it, yes? Should I be mudding the first layer as well, or jut the second. I remembered reading that only the second was needed with proper caulking, but other posts suggest otherwise. Also, do I need to caulk on the back as well for the drywall (Rod says something about caulking the edges, but I didn’t quite get if that was the back or the perimeter)? Or is doing each layer of drywall on the perimeter (2 layers) and the underlay to frame enough?

The concept of caulking here is to ensure 2 things. The first being an air tight seal. So, if that means putting caulk on the entire frame before you put up the drywall, then do that. If you think you can guarantee a perfect seal by just doing the perimeter, then do that. The second point of caulk here is to fill any gaps to ensure the surface density is not compromised anywhere. Caulk has roughly twice the surface density that drywall has so as long as your caulk is at least half as thick as the drywall, you're good to go.

The TL for the drywall says 32.93dB like you mentioned. You had said that was for 80Hz yes? The graph seems to be way lower at the 80Hz point and is a straight line up. Is there something I am missing? Also, fire code drywall is denser. Does it make much more of a difference?

The 32.93dB is the overall measurement. It's not for each frequency band. The drywall surface density the calculator uses is an average surface density for fire code drywall.

Greg

[mchit]

The concept of caulking here is to ensure 2 things. The first being an air tight seal. So, if that means putting caulk on the entire frame before you put up the drywall, then do that. If you think you can guarantee a perfect seal by just doing the perimeter, then do that. The second point of caulk here is to fill any gaps to ensure the surface density is not compromised anywhere. Caulk has roughly twice the surface density that drywall has so as long as your caulk is at least half as thick as the drywall, you're good to go.

Great. Thanks for that! I put the first wall up without caulking, so I will have to generously do the perimeter. I will likely caulk the frame for the others, just to play it safe, then also do the perimeter.

The 32.93dB is the overall measurement. It's not for each frequency band. The drywall surface density the calculator uses is an average surface density for fire code drywall.

Gotcha. I was trying to see if I missed something since you said "32.93dB around 80hz."

Thanks again! Tomorrow is likely round two of building. Hoping to get the ceiling frame built, get some drywall up, and caulk a bunch. Still working on seeing if I can get anything thicker than 1/4in glass (got a lead from a contractor friend I'm gonna follow up on) and need to source a decent solid core door. For the gasketing, is there anywhere in Canada that sells the Chrysler Type K Stuff Rod talks about in his book? Or a potential replacement? I couldn't find any info. Sorry if I missed it in the stickies!

Also, I saw your silencer box measurements for single path. Awesome! And I think I will plan to add one to the booth, though it may need to be a little down the road. Assuming I don't add any inner wall for now, I assume I can just remove the insulation from the one section, cut a hole through the drywall to mount the silencer box from the outside, then run it into a baffle box on the inside? I've been reading through some of the different threads, and not gonna lie, it is all a little confusing as I feel like I'm coming into the middle of a discussion other people understand the first part of.

Thanks Greg!

Matt

[Gregwor]

Gotcha. I was trying to see if I missed something since you said "32.93dB around 80hz."

Sorry about that. Here is the TL a single leaf of 5/8" drywall would provide at 1/3rd octave frequencies:

5 8" Drywall TL.png

Assuming I don't add any inner wall for now, I assume I can just remove the insulation from the one section, cut a hole through the drywall to mount the silencer box from the outside, then run it into a baffle box on the inside?

If I'm following you correctly, yes.

Regarding the glass, I tweaked out the calculator and here are some values for the glass to compare. Note, the flanking limit of a concrete slab is ~70dB so I'm sure your wooden frame will be less than that:

glass.png

Greg

[mchit]

No worries. Thanks so much Greg.

So, my attempt to source glass thicker than 1/4 laminate so far has been unsuccessful. The local glass company is calling around to alternate suppliers to see what they can do for me. I was thinking I may end up going with thicker annealed, since Rod said that it will still work, just not as well as laminate of the same thickness. Maybe 1/2in annealed and 1/4in laminate? What do you think Greg?

Also, day 2 of building. Pic included (sorry for the random drywall leaning on the front). Shortened the booth slightly as it was too big for the space, then set it on ad caulked it to the underlay. Built the ceiling, installed drywall on the ceiling and started with the side walls. I picked up 12 tubes of the DAP 230 you suggested. Went through half of it between the drywall, frame, backer rod, and sealing it to the underlay. But hey, should be airtight. Better an extra few tubes rather than not getting an airtight seal!

Day 3 should have most of the rest of the drywall up and the electrical boxes installed. From there, I need to sort window and door. Might need to end up building a door, as I can't seem to find a good solid core that isn't paneled (though I suppose I could still use one of those with the sheet lead and plywood, yes?)

Thoughts/suggestions so far?

Thanks again!

Matt

[Gregwor]

Maybe 1/2in annealed and 1/4in laminate? What do you think Greg?

Rod is one of the masters, so trust what he says

Thoughts/suggestions so far?

Great work! It looks amazing. I bet it feels good to see it come to life hey?!!!!

as I can't seem to find a good solid core that isn't paneled

It looks like Thunder Bay is the closest Windsor Plywood to you (I'm not sure where in Ontario you are), but I had to look around forever to find one as well. My friend bought one and it is great. Hopefully you could find a place near by that can get these in for you. They actually come with veneer if you'd like as well. However, since we usually add an extra sheet or two of MDF to the slab to add mass and get the bank vault style sealing, a primed hardboard makes sense and is cheaper.

https://www.windsorplywood.com/product/ ... ard-doors/

Also, while we are mentioning doors and the fact that you're in Ontario, the door seals that people try so hard to get are easily bought in Ontario at:

http://www.faccafasteners.com/

The model is 4731 weatherstrip.

Great work Matt!

Greg

[mchit]

Rod is one of the masters, so trust what he says

Truth, haha! And yeah, I saw his response in a post re: glass saying that if you can't find thick laminate, go with annealed. "Don't sweat the small stuff."

Great work! It looks amazing. I bet it feels good to see it come to life hey?!!!!

Thanks! And yes it does! Still work to do, but I'm hoping it'll be up and running by the end of the month.

It looks like Thunder Bay is the closest Windsor Plywood to you (I'm not sure where in Ontario you are), but I had to look around forever to find one as well. My friend bought one and it is great. Hopefully you could find a place near by that can get these in for you. They actually come with veneer if you'd like as well. However, since we usually add an extra sheet or two of MDF to the slab to add mass and get the bank vault style sealing, a primed hardboard makes sense and is cheaper.

Awesome! I'll check if any of my local stores can get it in. I live in a small town 2hrs from Toronto, so Thunder Bay is a bit of a haul, haha. Hopefully one of them can order it in. If not, would something like this work, assuming I can get it in solid core? https://www.rona.ca/en/hardboard-door-3 ... e-61406696

Also, while we are mentioning doors and the fact that you're in Ontario, the door seals that people try so hard to get are easily bought in Ontario at:

http://www.faccafasteners.com/

The model is 4731 weatherstrip.

Amazing! London is only 2hrs away, and we go down there every month or two. I just called and they are gonna check to see if they have it in stock for me. Speaking of sealing the door, I was gonna ask:

My current plan is to leave the 2x4 floor plate whole (instead of cutting it at to the floor). There will be a lip to walk over, which doesn't bother me, but it will mean I don't need to by a gasket system for the door. I was thinking of installing the 1inch door stop the whole way around the frame and using the weatherstripping on all four sides. Thoughts? If it works, it seems like it will save a fair amount of money for the door while still maintaining the same quality seal.

Thanks again for all your help! I appreciate it.

Matt

[Gregwor]

If not, would something like this work, assuming I can get it in solid core? https://www.rona.ca/en/hardboard-door-3 ... e-61406696

Yes.

I was thinking of installing the 1inch door stop the whole way around the frame and using the weatherstripping on all four sides. Thoughts? If it works, it seems like it will save a fair amount of money for the door while still maintaining the same quality seal.

For sure! You could even cut down the plate to like 3/4" by just running a circular saw over it a million times and then use a chisel to get the edges and smooth it out. That could give you a bit more height for your door and also have less to walk over.

Check out this thread where I helped my buddy do his door (we haven't installed the stops and 4731 yet).

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 10&t=21704

Greg

[mchit]

Yes

Great! Also, I called Windsor Plywood in Thunder Bay. They are just a reseller of the same doors most people carry he said (Metrie, etc...). I priced out a 1 3/8in flat solid core slab at my local Rona for $125. Seems reasonable I think. Will probably go with that as the basis.

For sure! You could even cut down the plate to like 3/4" by just running a circular saw over it a million times and then use a chisel to get the edges and smooth it out. That could give you a bit more height for your door and also have less to walk over.

Check out this thread where I helped my buddy do his door (we haven't installed the stops and 4731 yet).

Genius! Thanks for that. I may well do that with the floor plate to lower it.

Matt

[Gregwor]

Matt, also see if you can find Hager BB1168 door hinges near you. They are a fraction of the price compared to the Stanley FBB168. That's what Darren used for his doors.

Greg

[mchit]

Great! I'll check into those. This is all that is readily available near me for commercial grade door hinges (though I might be able to source some from local contracting companies). https://www.homehardware.ca/en/search?q ... oor+hinges

I will see if I can find those Hager ones somewhere nearby or easy to ship though, as they look good.

For the glass, due to the lack of thick laminate, I think I'll end up doing 1/4in laminate and 1/2in float since that seems to be the best I can get.

I did have a thought though. I assume they operate as 2 panes, but if I put 2 1/4in panes right up against each other, would that be similar to a 1/2in? I would of course still put another pane of glass 2 inches away for the double pane and air gap.

I was also thinking I would mount the window on wider wood (2x6 most likely) to allow me to place the panes farther apart, as the 2x6 would still fit the 2x4 frame plus 10/8in of drywall on either side. It would allow me to get an air gap of 3 or more inches though. I feel like that would be a better idea, as the extra air space would allow for greater isolation. Or am I totally off base here?

Thanks again!

Matt

[Gregwor]

if I put 2 1/4in panes right up against each other, would that be similar to a 1/2in?

I'd be concerned that unless they are laminated there might be some air caught between them that would act as a very small resonant cavity. I've never thought of it until now so maybe someone can chime in with some wisdom on this topic.

I was also thinking I would mount the window on wider wood (2x6 most likely) to allow me to place the panes farther apart, as the 2x6 would still fit the 2x4 frame plus 10/8in of drywall on either side. It would allow me to get an air gap of 3 or more inches though. I feel like that would be a better idea, as the extra air space would allow for greater isolation. Or am I totally off base here?

The bigger the gap, the better the isolation.

Greg

[mchit]

I'd be concerned that unless they are laminated there might be some air caught between them that would act as a very small resonant cavity. I've never thought of it until now so maybe someone can chime in with some wisdom on this topic.

Yeah, I was worried about something like that. Hrm... I mean, I could always by the plastic resin and make my own laminated glass in the oven, haha! Probably unwise though. Likely gonna be one pane laminate and one annealed.

The bigger the gap, the better the isolation.

Awesome.


Thanks!

Matt

[mchit]

So I got the solid core door from Rona. It is Jeld-Wen brand. 1 3/8in. I will definitely add mass to it via mdf and likely some sheet lead, like Rod suggested. Seems easier and a little less daunting than the sand door for me. The door arrives next Thursday.

I also called Facca Fasteners. They had some of the weatherstripping in stock. I had to buy 50ft of it, lol. Not cheap (almost $100 for it), but hey! At least I have it now, and extra for later if it ever gets damaged. Thanks for that suggestion!

Once I have the glass for the window, that should be all for the basic setup! Put up some more drywall today. Hopefully finishing the drywall and electrical tomorrow, then next week will be the window and door and roxul inside!

Matt

[Gregwor]

I also called Facca Fasteners. They had some of the weatherstripping in stock. I had to buy 50ft of it, lol. Not cheap (almost $100 for it), but hey! At least I have it now, and extra for later if it ever gets damaged. Thanks for that suggestion!

I hear ya! I think I have about 300 feet sitting here! Shipping to Western Canada wasn't cheap either

The one thing we haven't covered in your build is how to close the door! I recommend the following closer (which is also expensive like everything else in the build!). There are several Amre stores near you.

Taymor 1900 Series Door Closer
Taymor Adjustable Power Fire Rated Door Closer, Grade 1, Universal Mount, 266 Lbs, 11-1/8"
$180.19

https://www.amresupply.com/part/13-1900 ... UXE-CLOSER

Greg

[mchit]

I hear ya! I think I have about 300 feet sitting here! Shipping to Western Canada wasn't cheap either

Oof! That would be pricey! You could become the western Canada reseller for other booth builders, haha! Facca was actually great for me. One of their reps lives up toward my area and does business around here, so he is going to bring it up next week free of charge. I'll just need to drive 30mins. Beats paying for shipping.

The one thing we haven't covered in your build is how to close the door! I recommend the following closer (which is also expensive like everything else in the build!). There are several Amre stores near you.

Awesome! You sent the link a while back I believe. It is a buff closer! I'll take a look at who is nearby and see what they have in stock. My local home hardware also has a Grade 3 (400000 uses vs the 2mil for Grade 1) Commercial door closer rated for 187lbs. They think it would likely serve. Given that my door isn't going to be a 300lbs sand door, how to we feel about that? Doesn't hurt that it is also half the price. We've already reached the $1000 before the door closer and a couple other things, so I'm trying to see where I can save a bit of money without sacrificing meaningful performance.

https://www.homehardware.ca/en/4-commer ... lts%20page

More drywall put up today. Only 4 sheets left!

Thanks Greg!

Matt