Tiny Basement Mixing Room Woes

[Soundman2020]

Regarding the cloud absorption, I was going to use our standard Roxul mineral wool here in Canada ( which has a density of > 2 lb/ft3 or > 32 kg/m3 ) covered in breathable fabric,

That should work fine, yes.

so I was reflecting the rays off of the hard plywood (or MDF) lid.

That's fine, since that's where your mids will be bouncing from... mostly. And at high angles off-axis from the speaker, you'll be getting mostly mids up there, rather than highs. But its also worth trying at least a couple of rays bouncing off the insulation surface, just to get a better idea of the big picture.

Should I use "lighter" or less dense insulation in the cloud in your experience?

You should be OK with that. Do you have the actual acoustic data for that product? Specifically, the coefficients of absorption at various frequencies? That would be useful.


- Stuart -

[epstudio]

You should be OK with that. Do you have the actual acoustic data for that product? Specifically, the coefficients of absorption at various frequencies? That would be useful.

I do not currently, however I will see if the manufacturer can provide any acoustic data. As I use that product almost exclusively for low frequency absorption (Superchunks, Walls, Outer layer of hangers) it would probably be wise to know what sort of frequency absorption it actually provides in a lab tested environment!

[epstudio]

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That is the product that I use here in Canada. This is from Bob Golds site... https://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

What are your thoughts Stuart? I have had great results utilizing this mineral wool for bass trapping and broad band absorption in many different configurations and rooms...

Thanks!

Lee

[Soundman2020]

That looks reasonable. 0.52 at 125 Hz with a 3" thickness is respectable. But I'd suggest a greater thickness for your cloud, if you can fit it in.

- Stuart -

[epstudio]

Yes! I was planning on using either the 5" Roxul (for 6" studs) or two layers of the 3" in the cloud for the extra thickness.

Once my room is framed in I will make my initial empty room REW measurements and post the results before I start adding treatment. With the amount of bass trapping and low frequency absorption deployed in this tiny room, I am fearful that all the high frequency energy will be dissipated as well so I may need to employ a few of your tricks to put some back in the room Stuart!

Thank you again for all your help!



Lee

[Soundman2020]

so I may need to employ a few of your tricks to put some back in the room Stuart!

Ahh yes! Tricks! I do have a small bag that has a few of those in it... It would be nice to have Harry Potter's magic wand as well, but alas... all of my tricks are subject to the normal laws of the universe, unfortunately...


- Stuart -

[epstudio]

Hi Stuart, I was finally able to re-trace all my ray reflections with the correct technique (thanks again for the brain beating on that! ) I am posting the results just for continuity and to show were multiple reflections arrive at the same place, as it is possible extra treating might be located in said areas...

I am also almost done the initial framing of my super tiny room... Just have to hang the solid core door! I am so excited to start audio measurements!!!

NEW HORIZONTAL RAY TRACING: * note in case it's not obvious, the soffit wings are solid wood in order to direct the first reflections past the critical listening position (head)

New HORIZ Ray TOP.jpg

New HORIZ Ray TOP ISO.jpg

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New HORIZ Ray TOP ISO BCK.jpg

NEW VERTICAL RAY TRACING: * note the absorption on the underside of the cloud will be 6" (minimum) of cloth covered roxul so should hopefully not cause any first reflections off that "insulation" surface... Which is why I did not plot any rays there.

New Vertical Ray L.jpg

New Vertical Ray L ROX.jpg

New Vertical Ray ISO L.jpg

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New Vertical Ray ISO R.jpg

New Vertical Ray ISO R ROX.jpg

Thanks again for everyone's time and opinions! Love the forum

Lee

[epstudio]

Ok! I'm back everyone! Wow, it's been a crazy time I'm going to post pics of my progress as I have finally managed to make some actual headway on my build... But I'm most excited about posting my Empty Room Measurements! @ Soundman2020, @ Gregwor -- If you gentleman want a challenge I've sure got one for ya.... As you know (from our back and forth earlier in this thread) I have a tiny room but BIG heart and an appetite to complete this build with the best resulting frequency response that I possibly can... I would be incredibly grateful for your wisdom and insight if you are able to have a quick look at my REW files uploaded here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gbpLa ... XQXgRJnM2m as I am about to start stuffing roxul in the framing and building my bass hangers -- Would love your initial take and any questions on the first of many measurements! I will upload pics so you can see where I'm at tomorrow.

Hope all is well and the community is alive and well in these strange days...

Thanks in advance,

Lee

[Gregwor]

Great to see you back Lee!

Your measurements show that you're in a great place for treatment. I've seen fully treated rooms that look worse than your empty data! I would suggest lowering the volume by about 5dB though. Do that and document all of your settings so that you can repeat them after each treatment stage. Feel free to post the new quieter mdat.

I can't wait to see your progress. Have any pics to share?

Greg

[epstudio]

Ok so here we go Greg, I lowered my preamp by 6 db and took new room measurements. The file is linked below! Have a look and let me know if we are safe to proceed with this as my baseline settings. Sorry, still haven't had time to post all of the pictures (still organizing and resizing to 1200px). But I will get to that hopefully tomorrow.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1wr8FQ ... sh3ELWnJi-

Thanks again for all the great input!

Lee

[epstudio]

Ok! so I'm finally uploading pics of my progress so far... I know, it's taking me way longer to do any of this -- I have such a tiny room you'd think my build would have been completed ages ago But having two toddlers and a crazy workload right now seems to somehow impede my studio building time... LOL

As I have uploaded my sketchup pics already, I'll start in with the construction pics and commentary. Please feel free to chime in or ask questions! This is now my 6th small studio build and probably my last for awhile (just bought here in GP) so I am really excited to share this one with everyone!

Here is the back wall / hanger bass trap frame -- First boards up! WooHoo!

Front View where you can see the slight angle on the left side of the frame to create a larger entryway into the laundry room (wife compromise to ensure the washer / dryer could be removed if required )

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Added the studio door frame which follows that angle to widen the laundry room entryway - This angle will be complemented on the back hanger wall affording some extra room to maximize hanger size

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Here is the angle of that door frame close up

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Continuing with the Right side exterior wall

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Here you can see my prebuilt soffits already in place in the background -- oooo foreshadowing!!

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First piece of MDF up for the right exterior wall -- Progress! So exciting! LOL

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This shows how small my mixing room is in relation to the rest of the basement...

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[epstudio]

Here are my prebuilt soffits (I built these 2 studio builds ago and have moved them in quadrants two times already -- each quadrant weighs approximately 250 lbs!! These soffits have MASS!!! look back in the thread to see how they were initially built

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Wall stuffing and MDF on outside wall

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Outside wall done with paint and guitars hung!

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Now to framing and stuffing the Inside walls and Hanger area... I am using this sweet and super cheap nylon landscape mesh from Home Depot to hold all my roxul in place -- This will allow a smooth application of fabric over the studs and ensure the Hanger cavity walls and ceiling absorption stays where it should! -- Painstaking work getting this stuff pulled tight and stapled but it will last without stretching so yay!!

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Here is that complementary angle for the back wall and hanger cavity

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[epstudio]

Here's a closeup of the mesh

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So I still have to finish the roof and take measurements so that's all for the framing and stuffing for now....

On to the REAL exciting piece of my build so far... The custom Desk!! I am just floored with how well this came out!! as I could not have imagined it coming together as perfectly as it did -- Buckle up, this one's gonna be a fun ride!!!

Here is the initial sketchup designs complete with custom rack insets and scorpion tail monitor setup!! This was a concept that I was hoping I could pull off...

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I ordered custom 1.25" (32mm) Hardboard or HDF (I didn't realize there was such a thing as Heavy Density Fiberboard but it was all Windsor Plywood had in stock in Edmonton) and this stuff is HEAVY which is amazing for a studio desk once it arrived I had them make the main cuts for all the leg holes and desk top holes... I then proceeded to paint and install the rack houses including rack ears and hardware holes to mount the floating keyboard/mouse and the monitor stands

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I bought a jig off amazon for installing furniture cam head connectors and dowels - I highly recommend this method if you want your desk to potentially be disassembled.

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Started staining the Components Black which takes forever with MDF using a polyurethane stain is the way to go but it has to be oil based or your MDF will swell!

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Once all pieces were stained with 4 coats I finally got to start assembling the desk! This had to be done in the studio as space being so tight, the assembled desk would never fit through the door!

DESK LEG 1.JPG

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Super Important to ensure your holes are drilled precisely with this Cam hardware otherwise the legs won't go on tightly! This took some time...

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Alright! Got the legs on and the desk flipped up... Time to start the next phase!

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[epstudio]

First time working with E-Z Lock Threaded inserts for particle board... I wanted a way to securely mount the keyboard tray hardware and Monitor stand mounts to the desk... Using these inserts your fasteners thread through the material which provides a superior non-strippable securing method. I highly recommend! Especially for MDF which is prone to blow outs and stripped holes... Well worth the hassle and extra work. I used Gorilla glue when threading the inserts and once cured I had no slippage or failed threads whatsoever!

KEYBOARD TRAY HOLES.JPG

Next task was to build the rack houses and start covering the desk with my absorptive/diffusing secret weapon... Rubber backed, outdoor carpet! This stuff is a 1/4 " thick and covered in repeating textured valleys and rivers... It wasn't cheap but I this gave me the look, and acoustic performance I was seeking! My original plan was to use acoustic iso mat which I bought off Amazon, as soon as I opened it up I realized it wouldn't work at all for this purpose. As it was super soft and rubbery which wouldn't hold up to a desk surface at all... However, it will be amazing for my HVAC Silencers!! So, still a win!!

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The design of the Rack Houses has them angled back towards the soffits to break up the typical flat "desk" surface and help to redirect any potential reflections away from the listening position. This worked exceptionally well!

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Here is a couple shots with gear.... Had to start racking that up as soon as possible !! Major excitement now!

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Alright!! Now we are cooking with gas... this next pic is the finished desk with modified LCD Monitor stand/arm mount installed. This piece was originally a standard horizontal arm mount that I hacked apart and mounted to a new plate, bolted to a pair of reinforced L brackets... This was the main challenge to the Scorpion Tail Screen System (patent pending lol )

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And here is the finished product with custom monitor stand Scorpion Tail Style!! Let me tell you the ergonmics on this is incredible!

SCREEN MOUNT FINAL.JPG

[epstudio]

Here are some good shots of the angles I have all the monitors at... This was again for ergonomics and unwanted primary reflections off the screens. This stand is ROCK solid... and the monitors work SO well in this configuration! I was worried being off axis somewhat on the viewing angles would screw up my plan but the end result is nothing short of spectacular! Tons of real estate without the nasty reflections and straining your neck! Plus the extremely limited space I have necessitated some REAL creative problem solving and this custom desk design truly hit home on all fronts. Let me know if anyone has thoughts or questions!!

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And here we have the desk in place!! You are all caught up on the build so far... I'm just working on finishing the ceiling stuffing and then starting on my bass hangers. I will take measurements of the room again once the ceiling is done for my base treatment curve and then will start on the focused low frequency attenuation treatment (bass hangers, superchunks etc..) Thanks for tuning in folks! I can't wait to start adding more to the thread here on the finishing treatment process!

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And just for a hint of what's to come... here are some rough 'Vibe" pics! Blue LED's in the Furmans really set the tone here too!!

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