John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey guys, new to the forum here and my last post got shut down because I forgot to include some key information. My bad.

So I've recently moved into a new space where I have the ability to do my own acoustic treatment. The main issue with this new space is that it is very small (2.25m x 2.15m x 2.4m LxWxH).

I'm using Focal Alpha 65's which bottom out just below 40hz. Most of my time listening I keep the volume below 75db, occasionally turn it up a little past 80db. Volume levels are not really a concern in regard to neighbors/housemates.

The space is used mostly for producing and writing my own music (EDM/Future Bass). However, I do occasionally record vocals/guitars etc.

The front and left wall are drywall with 4 inches of insulation and concrete behind them. The left wall is drywall with 4 inches of insulation and another layer of drywall (adjacent room). The ceiling has a step in it about 1m from the back of the room where the ceiling goes from 2.25m to the previously mentioned 2.4m. The back wall leads me to my second problem. Due to the nature of the space, there is a garage door behind me on the right wall, and to accommodate this, (as well as allow access to the space), the back wall only covers the back left side of the room. This leaves the other half open to a large media room area (5.5m x 5.5m x 8m L x W x H). My budget is around 800 CAD so I've decided to go the DIY route and will be building most of my panels from Roxul SafeNSound given the availability. I wish it was easier to find Rockboard or another OC 703 like material but I can only work with what is available.

So my questions are as follows:

1. Will i need to cover the missing portion of the back wall, or am I better off just letting the sound escape as opposed to trying to contain it in such a confined space (again, sound getting out is not an issue, I'm asking from an acoustic standpoint).

2. I know the general rule of thumb for many is 30-40% coverage. Would I benefit from more considering the small size of my space?

3. Is it possible for me to get away without using a cloud? It would be covering the only source of light in the room.

4. Finally, what do you guys think of my layout concept thus far? Any tweaks or glaring problems? Images Included

Hi there ECSA, and Welcome! It looks like you have everything in order now! The other thread wasn't really "shut down"... but it's probably better to start here from scratch.

The main issue with this new space is that it is very small (2.25m x 2.15m x 2.4m LxWxH).

That is small, yes. And almost square, too. But as they say around here: if that's what you've got, then it's what you've got! And it's a hell of a lot better than having no room at all...

I'm sure you are aware of this, but small rooms are much harder to treat than large ones, and the smaller they are, the harder it gets.

I'm using Focal Alpha 65's which bottom out just below 40hz. Most of my time listening I keep the volume below 75db, occasionally turn it up a little past 80db. Volume levels are not really a concern in regard to neighbors/housemates.

OK, so you won't be needing isolation, which is good because that would make the room even smaller.

However, I do occasionally record vocals/guitars etc.

What are those bigger rooms to the left and below? Would it be possible to do your tracking in those rooms? Your control room is not going to sound too good for vocals and guitar...

the back wall only covers the back right side of the room.

? The way I see it in your images, the wall covers on the LEFT side of the room: the door is on the right, and the wall on the left...

This leaves the other half open to a large media room area

That doorway is still probably going to need a door of some type.

My budget is around 800 CAD so I've decided to go the DIY route and will be building most of my panels from Roxul SafeNSound given the availability. I wish it was easier to find Rockboard or another OC 703 like material but I can only work with what is available.

SafeNSound is fine. It works. On a very tight budget like that, save every penny you can by going for the lowest cost materials that will do the job.

1. Will i need to cover the missing portion of the back wall

I would suggest that you put a door on there, yes. The reason being that if you don't, then the two rooms are coupled acoustically through that doorway, so your ETC curve (shows how energy on the room decays over time) with have two distinct decay rates: first, a very fast decay for the control room itself, then a much longer decay rate for the other room. That's not so good, psycho-acoustically.

(again, sound getting out is not an issue, I'm asking from an acoustic standpoint).

That's what I'm considering here: the coupling is not a good thing, as you'll have the acoustics of BOTH rooms playing a part in how your room sounds, possibly including some of the modal issues of the larger room.

2. I know the general rule of thumb for many is 30-40% coverage. Would I benefit from more considering the small size of my space?

depends on what you are trying to achieve! Yes, you probably will need considerably more than that, given the very small size of your room, and most of it will be in bass trapping. But that will also suck out the high-mids and highs, leaving the room sounding dull and lifeless.... so you'll need to add reflective surfaces in front of your bass traps, to help keep at least a bit of highs in there. I would test the empty room using REW firsts, to see what the biggest issues are, then work on a plan to deal with those first.

3. Is it possible for me to get away without using a cloud? It would be covering the only source of light in the room.

In a room that small, you are going to need SOMETHING on the ceiling... a LOT of "something" in fact. A cloud would be a good way of getting a lot of "something" up there.... and you can put a new light in the cloud itself... or several new lights, if you prefer.

4. Finally, what do you guys think of my layout concept thus far? Any tweaks or glaring problems? Images Included

I would suggest dropping the desk idea, and go with a very minimal, open work surface, perhaps some type of metal grid, or something like that. You can't have such a large surface blocking off the entire front half of the room, and dividing it into two acoustic zones. Your speakers can't be on the desk either: they should rest on stands (heavy, massive ones). Your mix position is going to be pretty much in the center of the room, in all three axes, so that's a problem. However, with that size room, you don't really have a choice! There will very probably be bass issues in the mix position, but there's nothing you can do about that. You'll have to compensate by moving your head forwards and backwards occasionally while mixing, to check the bass more accurately. I would also suggest doing superchunk style bass traps in all of the wall-ceiling corners, and in the left rear corner too.

Apart from that, it seems you probably have the layout about as good as it can be!


- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:Hi there ECSA, and Welcome! It looks like you have everything in order now! The other thread wasn't really "shut down"... but it's probably better to start here from scratch.

The main issue with this new space is that it is very small (2.25m x 2.15m x 2.4m LxWxH).

That is small, yes. And almost square, too. But as they say around here: if that's what you've got, then it's what you've got! And it's a hell of a lot better than having no room at all...

I'm sure you are aware of this, but small rooms are much harder to treat than large ones, and the smaller they are, the harder it gets.

I'm using Focal Alpha 65's which bottom out just below 40hz. Most of my time listening I keep the volume below 75db, occasionally turn it up a little past 80db. Volume levels are not really a concern in regard to neighbors/housemates.

OK, so you won't be needing isolation, which is good because that would make the room even smaller.

However, I do occasionally record vocals/guitars etc.

What are those bigger rooms to the left and below? Would it be possible to do your tracking in those rooms? Your control room is not going to sound too good for vocals and guitar...

the back wall only covers the back right side of the room.

? The way I see it in your images, the wall covers on the LEFT side of the room: the door is on the right, and the wall on the left...

This leaves the other half open to a large media room area

That doorway is still probably going to need a door of some type.

My budget is around 800 CAD so I've decided to go the DIY route and will be building most of my panels from Roxul SafeNSound given the availability. I wish it was easier to find Rockboard or another OC 703 like material but I can only work with what is available.

SafeNSound is fine. It works. On a very tight budget like that, save every penny you can by going for the lowest cost materials that will do the job.

1. Will i need to cover the missing portion of the back wall

I would suggest that you put a door on there, yes. The reason being that if you don't, then the two rooms are coupled acoustically through that doorway, so your ETC curve (shows how energy on the room decays over time) with have two distinct decay rates: first, a very fast decay for the control room itself, then a much longer decay rate for the other room. That's not so good, psycho-acoustically.

(again, sound getting out is not an issue, I'm asking from an acoustic standpoint).

That's what I'm considering here: the coupling is not a good thing, as you'll have the acoustics of BOTH rooms playing a part in how your room sounds, possibly including some of the modal issues of the larger room.

2. I know the general rule of thumb for many is 30-40% coverage. Would I benefit from more considering the small size of my space?

depends on what you are trying to achieve! Yes, you probably will need considerably more than that, given the very small size of your room, and most of it will be in bass trapping. But that will also suck out the high-mids and highs, leaving the room sounding dull and lifeless.... so you'll need to add reflective surfaces in front of your bass traps, to help keep at least a bit of highs in there. I would test the empty room using REW firsts, to see what the biggest issues are, then work on a plan to deal with those first.

3. Is it possible for me to get away without using a cloud? It would be covering the only source of light in the room.

In a room that small, you are going to need SOMETHING on the ceiling... a LOT of "something" in fact. A cloud would be a good way of getting a lot of "something" up there.... and you can put a new light in the cloud itself... or several new lights, if you prefer.

4. Finally, what do you guys think of my layout concept thus far? Any tweaks or glaring problems? Images Included

I would suggest dropping the desk idea, and go with a very minimal, open work surface, perhaps some type of metal grid, or something like that. You can't have such a large surface blocking off the entire front half of the room, and dividing it into two acoustic zones. Your speakers can't be on the desk either: they should rest on stands (heavy, massive ones). Your mix position is going to be pretty much in the center of the room, in all three axes, so that's a problem. However, with that size room, you don't really have a choice! There will very probably be bass issues in the mix position, but there's nothing you can do about that. You'll have to compensate by moving your head forwards and backwards occasionally while mixing, to check the bass more accurately. I would also suggest doing superchunk style bass traps in all of the wall-ceiling corners, and in the left rear corner too.

Apart from that, it seems you probably have the layout about as good as it can be!


- Stuart -

Hi Stuart, regarding tracking in the other rooms, the large room is a TV/basement living room, so I can track in there but I can't really treat it. The other room is a storage room full of random skiing gear, refrigerator, camping supplies etc. so it wont really be an option (as much as i would prefer it to my current space).

As far as the desk goes, I forgot to get another angle showing that the speakers are not actually mounted on it, but are on floor stands with holes in the desk to accommodate. If not using a wood desk, what material would you suggest? I find it hard to imagine a metal grid desk that could properly accommodate a keyboard and mouse.

Cheers, Aiden