John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Good day,
We’ve just about completed our studio live room build out.
The room is 22x19’ with a ceiling that slopes from 10’8” to about 9’.
The (East and South) walls are typical doubles sheet 5/8” with Green Glue on both inner room and outer room. And the West and north walls are solid concrete.
The live room walls (South) that would normally join the lounge room has a 2” air gap, so as to not touch the lounge room wall.

The ceiling is also doubled Sheetrock.... I did not float the floor, because I did not want to lose the ceiling height. I also didn’t build a complete room with in a room because two of the walls are cinder blocks with poured concrete in them. So obviously the floor is the weakest link.
I knew this would be somewhat of a problem, but wasn’t sure how big of a problem.

The studio is on my second floor. My first floor is our Karate school Dojo and office, so I figured it wouldn’t be that bad if there were some sound escape. Well, there is a lot more escaping than I imagined. Moreso from the drums.

Finally My Question:
The first floor ceiling is unfinished and has exposed joist. The heights unfinished is aprx 7’.
By treating the room I’m almost guaranteed to loose at least 3-5” inches in height.

If I treat that area with Roxul, Doubled Sheetrock and maybe soundblock, would that effectively and noticeably “Minimize” the drum leakage, or would I just be wasting time and money?

Thanks
Jason

We’ve just about completed our studio live room build out.

Read my signature. I wish you would have shown your live room SketchUp design before you started. We would have mentioned the fact that your construction methods would fail to isolate your drums effectively.

The (East and South) walls are typical doubles sheet 5/8” with Green Glue on both inner room and outer room. And the West and north walls are solid concrete.
The live room walls (South) that would normally join the lounge room has a 2” air gap, so as to not touch the lounge room wall.

Your South walls essentially ARE touching your lounge room wall through the building. Since you didn't build a fully decoupled inner room, your isolation has been trashed.

The ceiling is also doubled Sheetrock.... I did not float the floor, because I did not want to lose the ceiling height. I also didn’t build a complete room with in a room because two of the walls are cinder blocks with poured concrete in them. So obviously the floor is the weakest link.
I knew this would be somewhat of a problem, but wasn’t sure how big of a problem.

The studio is on my second floor. My first floor is our Karate school Dojo and office, so I figured it wouldn’t be that bad if there were some sound escape. Well, there is a lot more escaping than I imagined. Moreso from the drums.

I presume your isolation is only slightly better than a normal house construction offers. You were correct to use at least two sheets of drywall, however, since there is no decoupling, your sound is transmitting through the structure and that is what you're hearing.

It is unfortunate that your room is on the second floor because you are limited to the weight that you can have up there. In most builds, the floor is concrete on the ground (or under it in a basement) so it is a non-issue. With a structural engineer, you could have figured out what weight limitations you are facing and then you'll know what options you had to build. Also, I know you mentioned ceiling height. I know ceiling height is important to us both visually and acoustically. But if isolation is your main concern (which is sounds like it is), then you should address that issue and live with a lower ceiling. Building your ceiling using John's inside out technique, you can save a lot of height.

The first floor ceiling is unfinished and has exposed joist. The heights unfinished is aprx 7’.
By treating the room I’m almost guaranteed to loose at least 3-5” inches in height.

If I treat that area with Roxul, Doubled Sheetrock and maybe soundblock, would that effectively and noticeably “Minimize” the drum leakage, or would I just be wasting time and money?

If I were you, I would try to minimize structure borne transmission with a drum riser. See if it helps enough. If it doesn't, we can investigate a more intense fix. I'm sorry you are facing this, but we will find a solution! Greg

Gregwor wrote:

We’ve just about completed our studio live room build out.

Read my signature. I wish you would have shown your live room SketchUp design before you started. We would have mentioned the fact that your construction methods would fail to isolate your drums effectively.

The (East and South) walls are typical doubles sheet 5/8” with Green Glue on both inner room and outer room. And the West and north walls are solid concrete.
The live room walls (South) that would normally join the lounge room has a 2” air gap, so as to not touch the lounge room wall.

Your South walls essentially ARE touching your lounge room wall through the building. Since you didn't build a fully decoupled inner room, your isolation has been trashed.

The ceiling is also doubled Sheetrock.... I did not float the floor, because I did not want to lose the ceiling height. I also didn’t build a complete room with in a room because two of the walls are cinder blocks with poured concrete in them. So obviously the floor is the weakest link.
I knew this would be somewhat of a problem, but wasn’t sure how big of a problem.

The studio is on my second floor. My first floor is our Karate school Dojo and office, so I figured it wouldn’t be that bad if there were some sound escape. Well, there is a lot more escaping than I imagined. Moreso from the drums.

I presume your isolation is only slightly better than a normal house construction offers. You were correct to use at least two sheets of drywall, however, since there is no decoupling, your sound is transmitting through the structure and that is what you're hearing.

It is unfortunate that your room is on the second floor because you are limited to the weight that you can have up there. In most builds, the floor is concrete on the ground (or under it in a basement) so it is a non-issue. With a structural engineer, you could have figured out what weight limitations you are facing and then you'll know what options you had to build. Also, I know you mentioned ceiling height. I know ceiling height is important to us both visually and acoustically. But if isolation is your main concern (which is sounds like it is), then you should address that issue and live with a lower ceiling. Building your ceiling using John's inside out technique, you can save a lot of height.

The first floor ceiling is unfinished and has exposed joist. The heights unfinished is aprx 7’.
By treating the room I’m almost guaranteed to loose at least 3-5” inches in height.

If I treat that area with Roxul, Doubled Sheetrock and maybe soundblock, would that effectively and noticeably “Minimize” the drum leakage, or would I just be wasting time and money?

If I were you, I would try to minimize structure borne transmission with a drum riser. See if it helps enough. If it doesn't, we can investigate a more intense fix. I'm sorry you are facing this, but we will find a solution!

GLENN-example%20drum%20riser%201.jpg

GLENN-example%20drum%20riser%202.jpg

Greg

Hello Greg,
Thanks for the feedback,
Unfortunately, the way I obtained this facility and with what caused us to get the facility didn’t allow for sketchups etc. last building destroyed through Hurricanes Irma and Maria, this space became available the month after and came at a really great deal. We literally had to survive, salvage, relocate, and build. Our studio provides a program designed to teach youth and be a solution to some of our problems in our territory.

Having said that. We built upstairs because the powers that be wouldn’t license us to have our smaller kids (Karate School) upstairs. And the Karate/leadership school is the main Gig here.

The isolation hasn’t been bad elsewhere and I totally agree that bether decoupling would have been ideal, especially in this warehouse type facility. As it stands right now, the only issues of concern is the basement directly below the live room.

I did start building a drum riser based off of a build I found online (i’ll try to post here...still learning to multiquote, attach in here via an iPad). I wasn’t sure if it would make any difference and thought I’d ask here for other solutions.

I appreciate your response. Thank you.
Jason

[quote="Gregwor"]

Hey Greg,
Again, I really appreciate your response. Thank you.

I’m searching for the “Inside-Out” method you mentioned. I’m searching it on the site, but finding suggestions to do it, but not detailing what it is. I’d like to read more about what it is, then how to do it.

Jason

The (East and South) walls are typical doubles sheet 5/8” with Green Glue on both inner room and outer room. And the West and north walls are solid concrete.
The live room walls (South) that would normally join the lounge room has a 2” air gap, so as to not touch the lounge room wall.

Your South walls essentially ARE touching your lounge room wall through the building. Since you didn't build a fully decoupled inner room, your isolation has been trashed.

Actually. The lounge wall and the studio walls are decoupled. The lounge is an added mezzanine and has an elevated flooring 1’6” higher than the live room, and is separated by solid concrete slab.

The lounge wall is also two layers of 5/8” + GG and only one layer of 5/8” on the opposite side.

The live room was built 2” off of it in reverse. 1 layer 5/8” 16”OC, then 5/8” doubled + Quiet Glue (which I will NEVER ever use again)

Amazingly (and to your point) there is little to no leakage between the lounge and the live room, except through the door which we are making into a “superdoor”.

Again, the live room leakage is coming from the live room floor...for complete isolation, I should’ve floated the floor, and that maybe what I’ll have to do anyway.

I’m hoping the drum riser will act as a decoupler so as to not have to redo the floor.

Jason