John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

As I wrap my head around my options for a decoupled ceiling, Im throwing around the idea of an inside out ceiling. The open web Joist has 2 strongback braces, plenty of plumbing and some heating duct (an issue I will have to address) all running though the joist. Right now though I'm concentrating on the ceiling for my future plans. I will be using 2x6 ceiling joist. I will loose an extra 2 3/4 inches over the Rod Gervais independent framed ceiling using the inside out ceiling but will have a soft ceiling right out of the gate. I have 7' 7" to the bottom of the existing open web joist now and with the inside out ceiling I will end up with 7' 2" to the bottom of the new ceiling. Im not happy about that but this is what I have to work with.
Ive been investigating the inside out ceiling and looks like it is usually made by making pre made panels/boxes out of 2x4's then lifted and fastened into the new joist up to 36" apart. I will be doing this myself and will have a drywall lift. My span is 15' 6" . One of my question is, instead of building the boxes on the floor with the two layers of drywall and Green Glue, then lifting them up into the joist, can I (as in the drawing) have my new 2x6 ceiling joist prepped on the floor with the 2x2's fasten and caulked to accept the first layer of 5/8 drywall, put all of my 2x6 joist up on the 16" center just like i was building a normal decoupled ceiling. After all the joist are up and fasten to the decoupled walls start hanging the inside out ceiling one layer at a time? Also not on the drawing but can I use a 1x3 under the double layer of drywall/GG instead of the 2x3? Another question is will the 2x3 leave enough space for the insulation being its only 2 1/2 inches tall under the drywall? On a final note I would like to leave the very bottom of the 2x6 joist exposed and stained and just fill under the insulation with some black felt or cloth of some kind. Any suggestions on what to use to cover the insulation? Thanks

If I build my inside out ceiling like this and want to add stained pine/ cedar boards under it, how much space should be between boards to “not” create a 3rd leaf and still get the acoustical benefits from the inside out ceiling?

If I build my inside out ceiling like this and want to add stained pine/ cedar boards under it, how much space should be between boards to “not” create a 3rd leaf and still get the acoustical benefits from the inside out ceiling?

As long as you don't create a sealed cavity, you shouldn't have to worry about the 3rd leaf scenario.

Why are you wanting to add the boards?

Greg

If I go this way it would be more for aesthetic reason. I can’t seem to find pics of finished inside out ceiling. Would I cover the insulation with plastic before the black cloth material? I’m a little concerned with insulation escaping. I will be shooting videos in this room as well as the live recording so I want to keep it professional looking as well as functionable. If I choose to use the boards they would go diagonal. Thought they would also keep the insulation up nice and neet. Just a thought.

I can’t seem to find pics of finished inside out ceiling.

For finished inside-out ceilings, take a look at the corner control room thread. In several images there you can see the ceilings of both his live room and his control room. Both of those are inside-out:

Control room: Live Room:


Here's some photos of another studio, showing the completed inside-out ceiling:

And how it looked while under construction.

If I go this way it would be more for aesthetic reason.

To be honest, that's not the prime reason why you should decide to do something major in your studio (or not do it). A studio is first and foremost an ACOUSTIC space, and secondly it is an aesthetic space. The very reason why the studio exists is to have good acoustic response, and also the correct amount of acoustic isolation. If those were not the most important goals, then why would you even bother building a studio? All of the decisions you take in designing your place should give top priority to acoustics. Then, once you have a good acoustics design in place, only then should you start to work on how to make it LOOK good.

I'm not saying that studios should be ugly! Not at all. They SHOULD look great too! (see above photos and threads). But the primary purpose of studio is not to look good: it is to sound good. So your decisions on how to build the place should be based on acoustics, not aesthetics.

Would I cover the insulation with plastic before the black cloth material?

That depends on the acoustic need. Plastic reflects high frequencies back into the room, while allowing the mids and lows to pass through into the treatment behind it. Thus, if your room needs more high end response (if it needs to sound more "live"), then putting plastic across it is a possibility. Of course, you can't do that on first reflection points, for obvious reasons. You can only do it on absorption panels that wont send reflections back to your head.

I’m a little concerned with insulation escaping.

Then use insulation that has the fibers very well bonded at the surface, such as OC-703 for example, or use FRK-faced insulation in those places where it is feasible to use it, or use a double-layer of cloth over the insulation: the first layer is cloth with a very fine weave, such that fibers cannot get through, and the second layer is your final finish fabric, which can be more course and textured, if you want that. Like this:

If I choose to use the boards they would go diagonal.

How could you possibly know that, at such an early stage in the design? You don't even know what the acoustic response of the room will be, nor what frequencies will need treating in which area, so it is way to early to decide on the details of the treatment, such as which way it will be oriented.

Thought they would also keep the insulation up nice and neet.

I'm not sure I understand: Why would having your slats run diagonally hold the insulation in place better than slats that run vertically or horizontally? Especially considering that the insulation is not even held in place by the slats at all. There is no physical contact between the insulation and the slats.

- Stuart -

Thanks guys for the response. The corner control room studio is amazing to say the least. Lots to think about here.