John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Pictured Here (used imgur to save site bandwidth) https://imgur.com/a/N19jvLI

I am moving house in a week and this room is accessible by the garden but has a strange plastic ceiling (no dimensions atm) and glass doors.

I am currently planning on filling in all of the gaps and holes with expanding foam and placing my work space at the far wall (where the brown thing on the wall is) with bass traps in all corners and absorbers on the parallel walls. No space for a diffuser as the doors are glass.

1. My main worry is that the plastic roof might have a negative effect on the sound in the room? Does anyone have any experience with anything similar to his?

2. Secondly, I am not sure how to treat the glass doors as they are completely flat and directly in the path of the speakers.
I have thought about getting a thick curtain and hanging it at the back so after coming through the doors you would have to pass through the curtain and I could possibly hang song absorbers from the curtain rail?

Would be really grateful if anyone could give me some advice on these issues as I'm not sure how detrimental they are to the rooms potential.

Thank you

Pictured Here (used imgur to save site bandwidth)

Hi. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to have missed part of that!

but has a strange plastic ceiling

Looks like it is probably polycarbonate sheeting. No use at all for acoustic isolation: it is very light weight: no mass. Your ceiling will have to be much heavier than that, if you hope to have any isolation in there.

with expanding foam

That stuff is OK for getting air-tight seals, but it is also pretty useless for acoustic isolation.

placing my work space at the far wall (where the brown thing on the wall is) with bass traps in all corners and absorbers on the parallel walls. No space for a diffuser as the doors are glass.

Then you would have it oriented backwards! Your rear wall will need stacks of thick treatment, so the only possible wall you can use for that is the one "where the brown thing on the wall is". Therefore your room will have to be oriented towards the glass doors. There's not much choice here.

1. My main worry is that the plastic roof might have a negative effect on the sound in the room? Does anyone have any experience with anything similar to his?

I would be far more worried about the effect it will have on isolation! Which will be around zero. Isolating a room requires mass. The more isolation you need, the more mass is required. You didn0t say how much isolation you need, but assuming this is a typical residential area in the UK, you will need quite a bit to keep the nasty cops from knocking on your door with noise complaints from your neighbors, ever time you start mixing. You will also need to isolate for another reason: rain, wind, hail, thunder, sirens, traffic, dogs barking, radios, helicopters, aircraft, motorbikes, and all the million other sources of sound outside in the world that will disturb your attempts to mix inside the room. A sheet of polycarbonate is not going to do anything at all to help with that. So before worrying about how to treat your room you should first worry about how to isolate it.

2. Secondly, I am not sure how to treat the glass doors as they are completely flat and directly in the path of the speakers.

They won't be, if you orient the room correctly as I outlined above. There are huge major enormous problems with having glass at the BACK of a room, since that is always the most critical wall in any studio, but ESEPCIALLY in small studios. However, there's no problem at all with having glass at the front of the room: the vast majority of pro studio have windows up front, facing into the live room, vocal booth, or another room.

I have thought about getting a thick curtain and hanging it at the back so after coming through the doors you would have to pass through the curtain and I could possibly hang song absorbers from the curtain rail?

Not an option. You will need DEEP treatment at the rear of the room. Most of the high-end rooms that I design have a couple of feet of bass trapping on the rear wall (60cm or so), but never less than about 15cm, even for a low quality room. There's no way you can hang that from a curtain rod.

Would be really grateful if anyone could give me some advice on these issues as I'm not sure how detrimental they are to the rooms potential.

You didn't mention the size of the room (length, width, height), nor what your goals or budget are (see the forum rules....), so I can't comment on what the room's potential is, but from the photos it seems like you could make a reasonable control room in there. If you isolated it reasonably and treated it well, and have enough budget and commitment to do that, then I would guess that it could be usable as a home studio control room.


- Stuart -

Thanks for the reply mate. I did miss that post, I read a different one about the pictures and someone mentioned linking away from the site and john had replied to him saying it was fine but I assume it was the wrong one and outdated.

I understand about the glass, definitely makes things a bit easier that way though and makes sense.

I haven't actually moved in yet so unfortunately haven't got the dimensions of the room. In terms of the isolation, it's a small cul de sac, only 3 neighbours to worry about but still will be a problem and I see what you mean about the rain etc.
Do you have any ideas for the easiest way to fix the isolation with the roof? I'm thinking of just calling a builder and getting a quote on adding a brick roof with insulation off the top of my head

My goal is to be able to produce and mix electronic music and have a clear sound, especially in the low end. My budget is £500-£1000 but I think the roof is probably going to be that alone haha. Sorry and thanks again mate, going off to read the instruction post you linked now.

I did miss that post

No problem. It's easy to fix.

In terms of the isolation, it's a small cul de sac, only 3 neighbours to worry about but still will be a problem

Right. Sound can travel long distances. The louder it is, the further it can travel.

Do you have any ideas for the easiest way to fix the isolation with the roof?

Here's the unfortunate thing: isolation isn't just a roof, or a wall, or a window: it is the entire room. If you have a well isolated room but leave the door open, then you have no isolation at all. You can see how important this is if you sit inside a car in a noise place, with all the windows closed, then open one of the windows. You immediately hear all of the sound coming in, that was very muffled just before that. Even though the rest of the car is still there, still isolating, the simple fact of having a "hole" in that isolation means that you have no isolation.

In other words, just isolating your roof alone isn't going to help all that much. You need to ensure that your entire room is isolated: All four walls, and the roof, and the window, and the door, and the electrical system, and the ventilation system (yes, you do need one).

The simplest and best system for isolating a studio is by building what is called a "room in a room". Basically, you do put a good roof on your room (yes you need that anyway), and then you build another room just inside that, leaving a small air gap between them. The simplest way of doing that is by making a simple stud frame (four walls plus ceiling) and putting drywall (plasterboard) on only one side of it, and filling the gap between that and the existing wall with suitable insulation (fiberglass or mineral wool). That will get you very good isolation at a reasonably low cost.

If you take a look around the forum at several of the completed and in-progress studios that forum members have built or are currently building, you will see how this is done, and how well it works: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 923#p40923

I'm thinking of just calling a builder and getting a quote on adding a brick roof with insulation

You could do that, yes, but there are other methods for building a roof.

My goal is to be able to produce and mix electronic music and have a clear sound, especially in the low end.

So you want actually be recording any live instruments in there? No drums, guitars, bass, or vocals? That's good, as some instruments can be very loud, and are very hard to isolate. If you are just doing electronic music, and mixing ITB, then it's a lot easier: you probably don't need extreme isolation for that.

My budget is £500-£1000 but I think the roof is probably going to be that alone haha.

Right. But you can build in stages: do what you can with the money you have, then save up and do the next part, then save some more and finish it. The most important thing is to design it properly first. Spend plenty of time learning how to design it, then actually designing it, before you start building.

thanks again mate,

That's what the forum is here for!


- Stuart -