John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hello, i am trying to figure out what kind of setup i could have with a rectangular room in a basement with unfinished ceiling (meaning the beams are exposed and non insulated in any way. this room measures 17 foot long by 11 foot width and 7 high, and i have tried to think and imagine how the space could be taken advantage the best way to have possibly a small booth to do vocals and or drums and a control mixing room.

I have found that im running out of ideas dealing with two major issues,
1- seems a very low ceiling to treat either ceiling or floor (concrete floor), Pipes gave to be re located to give me some play room to try to isolate as much as i can between this room and the main floor of the house.
2-Another issue concerning the floor is the tremendous amount of cold transference i get in winter time, its sickening, and i would like to do something about it but again with this low ceiling thing going on making a deck or floating doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Anyways im here to ask for help with brainstorming to get more thoughts and ideas and maybe some visual input that might trigger more ideas or something .

Hi there "Meborrh", and Welcome!

this room measures 17 foot long by 11 foot width and 7 high,

The floor area is reasonable, but the ceiling is VERY low... and that's without even isolating anything yet!

1- seems a very low ceiling to treat either ceiling or floor

Right. Is the entire ceiling limited to 7 feet, or are there some places where it can go higher?

Pipes gave to be re located to give me some play room

Hang on a sec! What does that "7 foot" height refer to? IS that the distance from the floor surface to the bottom edge of the joists above? Or is that from floor to the bottom of the pipes that hang below the joists?

2-Another issue concerning the floor is the tremendous amount of cold transference i get in winter time, its sickening, and i would like to do something about it but again with this low ceiling thing going on making a deck or floating doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

A floating floor is a bad idea for another reason: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

I would suggest that you consider a layer of really good thermal insulation, then a plywood or OSB deck, then engineered flooring ("laminate flooring") on top of that. Yes it will take up several inches, but if you have a serious cold issue in there, then you don't have much choice.

- Stuart -

Hello Soundman nice to meet you, The issue with the pipes is simple i have the drain pipes running down there and whoever did the extensions sort of didn't watch the measurements apparently or had no choice better than to pass them loosing altitude towards the concrete wall and then out on the further back side thru the wall and out to the laundry room etc etc.

I believe for what i see that i could probably be successful by calling a plumber and have him re rute them from the outside of the room wall which is another part of the garage there is a reason i can see why they did it like that though its because right above that room i'm about to use is the kitchen (yeah i know worst room ever) and of course the sink drains so close to the opposite wall from the main pipe route that they kinda improvised it like they did though i think this is an easy relocation fix and tops i will have to deal with the small kitchen drain pipe to have a straight move out and then i will cover that somehow. i do have pictures but i have not learned yet how to upload and they show in good measure what im trying to explain.

Now to top that i have found 2 more issues.
First one being that the existing "walls" aren't insulated in any way or form, and for something to work with i would have to tear my side in off and fill with mineral wool or so and then use plywood which is much thicker than this cardboard compress thing there is on them, that is for a back-side and front walls, the other lateral is concrete which is a whole other issue.

Still said the ceilings are floor to low part of the support beam is the 7 feet so the pipes hang lower in an angle i guess to help flow.

AND as if that wasnt enough after moving a few things around( in the pictures show im still cleaning the mess and tons of crap outta there.) i come to discover the concrete sinks in a circle shape,. im like wtf? idk if that room was ment something else in one point in time but there someone thought it was a great idea to dig a hole and put a darn drain on it, wtf for? me dunno.

Anyways as soon as i learn about uploading pics they will be up.

Thank you

Tryout pics
ub the second pi the copper piping shows up which i cant move but i was looking at doing a thin cloud on the ceiling as i can make work without compromising too much im also 6'3 so i need some room to move lol, if that is decided i would fill the gaps between beams with mineral wool also.

I'm still a noob , but here's what I have to offer:

Draw up the room in SketchUp Make as accurately as possible. Even draw in each floor joist. Be sure to use the layers feature of the software so that you can easily remove elements of your room for easy viewing and to make drawing new elements easier. Ex: the ceiling in your basement can be removed from sight as easy as clicking a check box. Put each type of element on it's own layer (like insulation, drywall, studs, foundation, etc, etc)

I can repeat in my own words some of the things I've read Stuart "Soundman2020" write on the forums here countless times:

1. How much isolation do you need in dB between your control room and the rest of the house? How much between your "booth" and the rest of the house? How much between your CR and the booth? Maybe you don't need any isolation to the rest of the house and you can just worry about isolating the CR and the booth. This would allow you to save ceiling height in the CR.

2. What's more important to you: comfort and convenient recording or sound quality? These may go hand in hand with money as well since dealing with your cold floor will cause you to lose even more height in your room and inherently cost way more. Maybe consider painting the concrete floor and wear clean indoor shoes. Concrete is the best floor you can have.

3. HVAC will eat up a lot more space than you think. From personal experience living in Canada where the winters get pretty chilly, I can say that I sympathize for your cold floor situation. Having said that, I know that if you have a properly heated and insulated basement, the floor really isn't that cool. Luckily, studios have a ton of insulation in their design so you're half way there. Design your HVAC system accordingly (there are lots of threads explaining everything from the construction of elements like silencer boxes all the way to calculating how much air you need to circulate. This is potentially one of the most important aspects to a comfortable and usable recording space so don't compromise here.

4. John's inside out wall/ceiling design is the ultimate when it comes to saving space, so you'll probably end up having to implement it into your build.

5. Luckily with a rectangular room, it's easy to find out how your room will theoretically perform using:
http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc
Those sites will let you try different room dimensions and help you make a more educated decision on how to split up your room in regards to the size of your control room vs booth.

Again, the SketchUp will help us all visualize where these pipes are and stuff. One thought I had, was that the drainage pipe along the wall may not be in the worst spot since you'll have to build a wall there anyway. The wall could go right up the bottom of that pipe and then you could frame around the remaining exposed pipe. Ceiling corner traps would be beneficial to have in the corners anyway so any protruding framing/drywall would be hidden in the end. The pipe running parallel to the joists could hopefully be re-routed to be up in between the joists. You could then build the inside out ceiling.

Is your HVAC nearby? Where do you think you could fit your duct silencers into this design? In the floor joists or outside of your inner wall leaf? What sort of control room were you wanting to have? RFZ are the most common.

Greg

Thank you Greg for your input,nice to meet you, i had done the mode calculator here is the link https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc?l=17 ... ue&r60=0.6 i must admit im still getting around what it all means in there because some stuff i have no clue but i get where the peaks and frequencies are going to be a problem. About the sketch up software i wouldn't even know where to begin, so that will take me a bit and i apologize for that, and as i can see i have some questions to review. I will get back with drawing and so one asap
Thank you again