John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Waka wrote:Thanks for the info Dan! I am planning to install a similar system in my build and I was just wondering if using extension cables (such as a 4 way socket) would introduce ground loops? For example; when powering a large credenza of rack units what's the best way to do it? Do I need a seperate socket with individual earth wires for every piece of gear or is using an extension (which is basically a daisy chain in a box) acceptable?

Thanks,
Paul

You would introduce the potential for ground loops yes. You might get away with it, but it's much better to add another few socket boxes with separate earths, especially as we're doing surface mounted electrics! Just chuck 5 double sockets or something near your gear The saying goes: "The better the ground, the better the sound!".

I'm going almost entirely digital with very little outboard gear at all! So it's less of a problem for me.

Dan

Waka wrote:

Waka wrote:Thanks for the info Dan! I am planning to install a similar system in my build and I was just wondering if using extension cables (such as a 4 way socket) would introduce ground loops? For example; when powering a large credenza of rack units what's the best way to do it? Do I need a seperate socket with individual earth wires for every piece of gear or is using an extension (which is basically a daisy chain in a box) acceptable?

Thanks,
Paul

You would introduce the potential for ground loops yes. You might get away with it, but it's much better to add another few socket boxes with separate earths, especially as we're doing surface mounted electrics! Just chuck 5 double sockets or something near your gear The saying goes: "The better the ground, the better the sound!".

I'm going almost entirely digital with very little outboard gear at all! So it's less of a problem for me.

Dan

Damn, I was planning on having a 6 bay 14u credenza which will mean an absolute tonne of individual sockets and wires!

Out of interest, have you heard of "zero loop area" wiring? it seems like it could be a simpler solution, though I do fully understand it yet.

Paul

Waka wrote:Damn, I was planning on having a 6 bay 14u credenza which will mean an absolute tonne of individual sockets and wires!

Out of interest, have you heard of "zero loop area" wiring? it seems like it could be a simpler solution, though I do fully understand it yet.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I hadn't heard of it until now, but seems to make sense. I read about it in John H Brandt's paper: https://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/upl ... p-Area.pdf
I suppose that's an option for you instead. It means you can't plug any wires in "loose" though. The downside being you can't install "loose" cables. Every amp, microphone and input location needs to be planned in advance and a conduit installed. Not only that, you are limited to only have audio cable locations next to electrical wiring. So Your musicians will need to be standing next to sockets with a really short audio cable plugged into the adjacent audio input. If you want an amp in the middle of the room, you need it's socket and audio input in the middle of the room too, adjacent to it.

It seems like it could be workable with tons of planning, but isn't a very flexible solution. On the upside you won't have a single trailing cable in the room! Which would be beautiful

Dan

Waka wrote:

Waka wrote:Damn, I was planning on having a 6 bay 14u credenza which will mean an absolute tonne of individual sockets and wires!

Out of interest, have you heard of "zero loop area" wiring? it seems like it could be a simpler solution, though I do fully understand it yet.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I hadn't heard of it until now, but seems to make sense. I read about it in John H Brandt's paper: https://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/upl ... p-Area.pdf
I suppose that's an option for you instead. It means you can't plug any wires in "loose" though. The downside being you can't install "loose" cables. Every amp, microphone and input location needs to be planned in advance and a conduit installed. Not only that, you are limited to only have audio cable locations next to electrical wiring. So Your musicians will need to be standing next to sockets with a really short audio cable plugged into the adjacent audio input. If you want an amp in the middle of the room, you need it's socket and audio input in the middle of the room too, adjacent to it.

It seems like it could be workable with tons of planning, but isn't a very flexible solution. On the upside you won't have a single trailing cable in the room! Which would be beautiful

Dan

Hey Dan, thanks for your reply. That actually doesn't sound simpler at all... I think I'll stick with star grounding

Paul

Another Friday studio day.

I've almost completely finished the ceiling now. I've just got 2 more rows to complete.

The ceiling modules look great, it's almost a shame to cover them over
The plan is to get to get the door materials ordered:
Second door blank for inside,
Hinges,
Door closers,
Dead bolt,
Handles,
Drop seals,
Epdm seals,
MDF sheet for beefing them up,
Framing timber.

Then I'll wait for a sunny Friday and Saturday and take the temporarily fitted door off and build the frames together with temporary bracing before installing it back in the rough opening. I might get a friend of mine to come and help me out who's great with wood/metal/anything really.

And I'll start installing the lighting in the mean time.

Dan

It's looking pretty good, Dan! Nice going.

- Stuart -

My friend came over and helped me fit my permanent exterior door.

We got a lot done and the door hanged (hung??) , but weren't able to finish fitting the ply beefing up layer.

The door is a solid core hardwood finished fire door.
I've installed 15mm toughened glass. The finish will just be oiled with Osmo UV wood protection.

We ran the trim (hardwood moulding) over the table saw to cut a groove to slip in a rubber weatherseal, between it and the glass.

I took some pictures, but not as many as I wanted as we were running low on time. Have to wait for the oil to dry for 12 hours before I can fit the trim now though.

Dan

Looking good!

We got a lot done and the door hanged (hung??) ,

Hung. Unless perhaps you were imposing the death penalty on that door, for some grave crime that it committed, in which case "hanged" would be correct... (What did that door do anyway, to deserve such a severe punishment???? ). In another life I used to be a language translator, so I had to learn about all the subtle differences in the meanings of words... Sigh!

The door is a solid core hardwood finished fire door.

Excellent! Lots of mass there.

I've installed 15mm toughened glass.

Laminated? Or just toughened? I'm sure you did, and I'm just checking here, but I'm assuming you did the math here, and figured out that 15mm glass is fine for your MSM isolation? Glass is about 3 to 4 times the density of most types of wood, so 15mm glass is about the same surface density as a solid wood panel of about 45 to 60mm thick. Does that match your door thickness? DO you know what type of wood that is? There's a big difference between the density of many species. Spruce is only about 60% the mass of Oak or Maple, for example. If you can, find out what wood it is, so you can be sure your MSM calculations are good. Worst case, you might need to add an extra layer of mass to the door. Best case, it might be fine just like it is...

Also, what plans do you have for the seals around that door? (Seals are critical... But you already know that... )

- Stuart -

Hi Stuart thanks for the reply.

Hung it is then!

So the 15mm glass isn't laminated. I did the calcs and found that standard toughened at 15mm would be better than wall and door TL.

I didn't find this out until after I'd received the door but it's chipboard throughout, between the veneers.

The door needs beefing up yes, so I'm using a layer of 18mm hardwood plywood on the inside.

I've taken the door back off and I've been installing the plywood this morning.

The bottom uses an automatic door closer. And the other 3 sides have rubber bubble seals. Then the plywood layer has its own bubble seals around all 4 edges.

Here's some more pics: Dan

wow that ceiling looks incredible !

richroyc wrote:wow that ceiling looks incredible !

Sorry for the long delay! I love it. Its a shame it will be covered up with treatments lol.

Updates for you guys:

Finally got a new electrician to come and certify my wiring after the other one let me down. He's coming on Monday.

The HVAC guys are coming to install the unit the following week. And the cladding arrived! (a month late!), the guys in my band are coming to help me clad the studio the weekend after the HVAC guy is finished.

Cladding : Dan

Some more pics dudeos.

I've almost finished hanging the inner leaf door. Moving on to the seals/dead bolt and door closers.
Dan

Big news guys. Electrician has been and certified all of my wiring today and it's all passed

I have lighting, sockets and ventilation all working. Ventilation is on a variable speed controller which works great.
Shame about the big sticker on the front of the consumer unit though!

They also delivered my new SPL meter today. It came in a nice box too. So when I'm finished with my door seals I'll have to check the isolation I'm getting!
Dan

Congrats dan, looking good!

I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in regs that states you can’t put a consumer unit in a cupboard, maybe you could build a cupboard and door around it to hide the sticker?

Paul

Ah it doesn't bother me that much. If anything I'll check whether it needs to be on there at all, and if not I'll remove it.

Dan