John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hello,

I'm at the design phase of finishing my basement and need to bounce a few things off you folks.

First, an overview. My wife I and move into a new house last year, so its new construction. I play guitar and have two small children and would like a cool space for us. No professional use. My 8 year old boy has interest in learning Drums, so a Drum room is in the plans. Music Genre is Contemporary Christian.

The house is 2 stories and would like some nice isolation as respects to the rest of the house, especially the drum room. I know you're looking for specifics in regards to isolation requirements in DB's, but I just don't know yet. I think its going to depend on the amount of work/money required to get X amount of isolation. Especially since I still have a lot of questions in regards to ceiling construction.

For the Drum room, I was thinking of constructing the ceiling "inside out" with it resting on the walls, but I just can't find a lot of info in regards to this type of construction - either on this site, or in Rod's book. I need info such as size of lumber to use and recommended spacing. Another question would be, if my room is 15' wide, is this type of ceiling construction even doable? Maybe I would just do RC channel for the other rooms?

Ceilings are 9 feet in basement.

Here is the space: He is the design I came up with: I know the multipurpose room is square, I just can't seem to come up other ideas. I'm interested in feedback. As you can see, I'd like a multi use room for the kitchenette, home theatre, mixing desk, live room. Maybe I'm trying to do too much with that room size?

I'm also trying to design around those support columns near the stairs by trying to integrate them into a wall.

Another Challenge I have is that local building codes require floating walls in the basement because we have expansive soil in Colorado. I found a post here awhile back where a guy floated the walls at the top vs the bottom, I can no longer find that post. Though, if I built inside out ceilings resting on the walls, that would likely take care of that requirement as long a there was a couple of inches between the ceiling joists and the floor joists above.

Thanks guys!

Music Genre is Contemporary Christian.

My favorite, actually!

I know you're looking for specifics in regards to isolation requirements in DB's, but I just don't know yet. I think its going to depend on the amount of work/money required to get X amount of isolation.

It's exponential. Since teh decibel scale is logarithmic (similar to human hearing), it gets progressively harder and more expensive as you go up the dB scale. A thick piece of cardboard will give you 10 dB of isolation, a sheet of plywood will give you 20, a full stud wall with drywall on both sides and insulation in the cavity will give you 30, to get 40 you need fully-decoupled two-leaf wall, to get 50 you double the mass on that wall or pour an 18" thick reinforced concrete wall, etc. Each time you go up by ten points on the dB scale, you need to block ten TIMES the energy. The most you can reasonably expect for a typical home studio on a good budget, is around 60 dB. The very best isolated studio on the planet gets a tad over 100 dB, but cost millions of dollars to build and required some of the best acousticians in the world to design it.

That's why it is better to start with a dB goal and see what type of materials/techniques it would take to get there, and set the budget based on that. Or lower the goals.

I was thinking of constructing the ceiling "inside out" with it resting on the walls,

Smart move!

but I just can't find a lot of info in regards to this type of construction - either on this site, or in Rod's book.

That's the way I do most of the ceilings that I design. Here's a couple of examples:
The trick is to do it "modular". Create a tough structural "backbone" with fairly large bays in between the structural members, and build individual small modules on the floor, then lift them into place, and seal/bolt them. If the ceiling is not to wide, then you can do it in full-width segments. Here's another example, from a forum member, as his crew lift such a segment into place:

I need info such as size of lumber to use and recommended spacing.

You'd probably need to consult a structural engineer to get that, or use span tables, or span calculators, to figure it out, then get your structural engineer to sign off on it. Generally, I use over-size joists, sistered, at twice the normal spacing.

Another question would be, if my room is 15' wide, is this type of ceiling construction even doable?

The room in the first photo above is 14'8" wide. The second one is 16' wide by 21' long. So yeah, I think it can be done!

Maybe I would just do RC channel for the other rooms?

If you think you don't need high ceilings and very good isolation in the other rooms, then yes, that is an option.

Ceilings are 9 feet in basement.

Cool! Lucky you!

He is the design I came up with:

I'm not certain, but it looks like you are showing a DAW setup in the "multi-purpose media/music" room, as though you were planning to use it as a control room, but that is not going to work, for a very basic reason: Symmetry. If you want to use a room to track/mix/master, then it is imperative that the room must be symmetrical (left half = mirror image of right half). If not, your ears hear different acoustic images, and you try to "compensate" for that in the mix... creating a problem where there was none. In other words, you absolutely must have symmetry for the control room.

I'm interested in feedback. As you can see, I'd like a multi use room for the kitchenette, home theatre, mixing desk, live room. Maybe I'm trying to do too much with that room size?

Yep! Just a little bit too much!

To start with, you should NEVER have flowing water anywhere near the inside of a studio, and even less kitchen! Imagine what the steam, smoke, humidity, airborne grease, spices, heat, and etc. will do to your your mics, instruments, console, speakers.... Apart from the damage it would cause, you also have the not-so-minor issue that many instruments and some mics are sensitive to changes in air humidity and air temperature: the tone and tuning changes. So you'd be forever re-tuning your instruments during recording sessions, and forever doing re-takes as the sound for one take is different from the sound for another take....

So nope. Just nope. That's not a feasible setup. I would divide off the control-room section all by itself.

You also need to complete your isolation system: There are leaves missing.

I'm also trying to design around those support columns near the stairs by trying to integrate them into a wall.

Another Challenge I have is that local building codes require floating walls in the basement because we have expansive soil in Colorado.

You mean "floating" as in "not attached to the building structure or ceiling", such that they can rise and fall as your slab rises and falls? Or "floating" in the acoustic sense?

- Stuart -

Thank you for the response Soundman2020!

Yep! Just a little bit too much!

To start with, you should NEVER have flowing water anywhere near the inside of a studio, and even less kitchen! Imagine what the steam, smoke, humidity, airborne grease, spices, heat, and etc. will do to your your mics, instruments, console, speakers.... Apart from the damage it would cause, you also have the not-so-minor issue that many instruments and some mics are sensitive to changes in air humidity and air temperature: the tone and tuning changes. So you'd be forever re-tuning your instruments during recording sessions, and forever doing re-takes as the sound for one take is different from the sound for another take....

So nope. Just nope. That's not a feasible setup. I would divide off the control-room section all by itself.

You also need to complete your isolation system: There are leaves missing.

So I've changed the layout, and designated a space for the control room. I'm thinking I would add slot resonators and such after the drywall was complete to transform the square room into some more acceptable:

You mean "floating" as in "not attached to the building structure or ceiling", such that they can rise and fall as your slab rises and falls? Or "floating" in the acoustic sense?

I mean floating as in the wall construction: This challenge was also discussed in this thread:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... ting+floor

Ok, so I've been racking my brain trying to come with up a decent control room. The latest layout above has the control room pretty much square at 15' x 15', and I know not ideal. The alternative I've come up with is smaller, but seems to have a more favorable room ratio: Any comments or suggestions on this layout?

Thanks!