John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

I'm no Rubber expert... but I've been informed off line that Neoprene is typically only used because of it is not adversely affected by oils which are present in many industrial noise/vibration control situations.

Apparently Styrene Butadiene Rubber (a synthetic) can also be used for noise/vibration control where the contact with oils are not an issue. I'm thinking that there sure has heck {<PG rating intact>} shouldn't be any oils under my floor.

Has anyone used this material as a substitute for Neoprene? The price point for Styrene Butadiene Rubber is significantly cheaper then Neoprene and I've been told that it can be had at both 60 durometer and 70 durometer (a measure of hardness). As well remnants from the manufacturer of conveyer belts can be a good source.

comments? clarification?
Cheers
Steve

Hadn't seen that before; did a quick search and it sounds pretty tough, but didn't see any longevity figures. Neoprene has about a 10 year life as a floor isolation material, while EPDM (the material Auralex U-Boats are made of), while more expensive, has a typical life span of around 25 years. If I find more details I'll add them - just remember, once the stuff is down and covered, it's too late to decide to spend extra for longer useful life... Steve

Thanks for your reply Steve.

I'm learning more about rubber and that's a good thing. Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer. I'll try to find a suppler/source for the best kind of rubber, and agreed, I don't want to cheap out only to see the hard work of floating a floor disabled only to save a few dollars.

I'm very much in the early planning stages of my mix room, and I'm considering floating the floor within the room... not having the walls touch the floor at all. Kind of like a large drum riser. Do you think this is advantageous or should the walls sit on the floor?

anywho
thanks
Steve

One more Rubber question... can you layer rubber and get good results... I mean can two 1/4 inch pieces layered one on top of the other provide the same results as a 1/2 inch layer?

I wonder if they could be glued together... there's really no shearing force to contend with under a floor...

hhhmm

thanks in advance
Steven

http://www.astlettrubber.com/sr/index.html

Here's a great site that describes the various Rubber and their properties. Certainly seems that EPDM is the Rubber of Choice with regard to ageing....

Ethylene Propylene Diene Rubber applications include automotive parts, electrical applicances, cables and waterproofing membranes. EPDM products are used for all applications where outstanding resistance to ageing and ozone is required.

I for one do not want to "redo" my floor in a decade.
Cheers
Steve

Gluing rubber - contact cement is fine, as you say there's little shear involved. Main thing is NOT to constrain the rubber sideways, it needs to be able to "bulge out" in order to maintain its durometer rating.

If you wanna just do it and stop "thinking it to death" (a trait I must admit to myself) Just buy Auralex U-boats. Jeff informed me some time back that they are EPDM, which is part of why they seem expensive. They're simple and they work -

If you still wanna "think it to death" at least a little, check out my first post here -

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=839

If you're already "thunk out", place the u boats DIRECTLY over any floor joists , possibly even every OTHER one, use 2x4's on edge, fill cavities with rockwool or rigid fiberglass (fill to about 1/4" ABOVE the floated joists), put a couple layers of heavy ply and your finish floor, and move on... Steve

We used Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer (EPDM) to float our walls, and I'm going to use it to float a platform under my piano. We got it pretty dang cheap from a local roofer...he took us out to his scrap pile and we just grabbed a bunch of it. Much cheaper than Auralex (in fact, I'd say that ALL of those ready-made studio suppliers charge about 200% too much for everything...you just have to hunt a bit). We just cut the pieces we needed, layered them until we had a half inch thick pad, and plopped 'em down.
Best,
Phil

Yeah, Phil, there's no doubt that DIY and scrounging can beat store or internet pricing, and if that's an option a person can save quite a bit - I mentioned the U-boats primarily because I had been talking to Jeff from Auralex and busting his chops about pricing - that's when I found out about the diff between EPDM and neoprene, and that the Uboats were EPDM. Doesn't make 'em cheap, but explains SOME of the cost -

Any time you have someone ELSE do something for you, it's gonna cost more - If you're willing to do the legwork and chase down things, it BETTER cost less or what's the point?

Working in an industrial environment, I get access to some pretty cool "scraps" from time to time; I try to keep this out of recommendations here, since a lot of this stuff would be ungodly expensive if you tried to buy it.

Glad you scored a bunch of the "right stuff", congrats... Steve

Yup. Sometimes you get lucky with these finds. But like you said in another post, if you spend all your time researching, nit-picking, and scrounging without getting to work, you lose the reason you're building the stuff in the first place. Love them sounds!! "Some cultures believe that the world exists through sound."

... now lets not loose focus here... I though the planning process was equally, if not more, important as the building process... ;o)

you're right though... I do tend to research stuff to death. I tend to measure twice and cut once.



appreciate all the advice here
Steve

found a good source in Edmonton for Neoprene, EPDM, and SBR. So I'm happy.

Planning balanced with action; gee, maybe that's why I don't get squat done...

ASA (personal acronym standing for All Seriousness Aside) the EPDM in 60 Duro is what you want -

Your method beats the other scenario - "Man, I've cut this damn thing off TWICE and it's STILL too short... Steve