Building a studio out of shipping pallets

[thepipster]

Good day!

This is my first post and its a strange one. I am moving into a new rented space and want to potentially pursue an idea to build a control room completely out of standard shipping pallets so that I can break them down if and when I move to a new rented space. My idea is to fill the spaces inbetween the two sides with insulation material and then cover both side with 6.4mm gypsum board. I have a very basic design currently that I am goin to take to an acoustician to assist in fleshing out.

Has anyone done this before? If you have please can you drop some knowledge my way?

Also, if this is a ridiculous idea for some or other reason, please tell me why! I need some guidance!

Regards,

[Soundman2020]

Hi. Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!


Assuming that you need some isolation, to stop sound getting in and/or out, you will need mass. That's the only thing that stops sound: "Mass" as in "very heavy, thick, rigid, solid materials". Most studio builders here on the forum do that with with two layers of fire-rated 16mm drywall (plasterboard) nailed to one side of a sturdy frame. They then do it again, with another frame, totally separate from the first one, and another two layers of 16mm fire-rated drywall nailed to that. So they have a fully-decoupled two-leaf wall, with a large amount of mass. And the fill the gap in between with suitable insulation, such as 50 kg/m3 mineral wool, or 30 kg/m3 fiberglass. Then they do the same for the ceiling; two frames, each with two layers of 16mm drywall on only one side, a large air gap between, filled with suitable insulation. They they do the same for the doors and windows: Also two-leaf, with lots of mass. They they do the same for the HVAC system: also two-leaf silencer boxes, with lots of mass. Then, when all of that is done, they put the acoustic treatment inside the room, to make it usable as a control room.

Shipping pallets do not have mass. They do not have structural integrity. 6mm drywall does not have mass. Nor does it have structural integrity. There is no way you could safely build a ceiling that would support the large amount of mass needed to isolate a studio, using only shipping pallets and ultra-thin drywall. You need solid lumber long enough to span the room, and of the correct dimensions needed to support the live load and dead load at the design deflection. There's nothing like that in a shipping pallet. You also need enough mass in your leaves to actually stop sound.

Has anyone done this before?

I very much doubt it! If anyone did, they would now sadly be crushed under the rubble of the collapsed studio....

I have a very basic design currently that I am goin to take to an acoustician to assist in fleshing out.

Before you take it to the acoustician, first take it to a qualified and certified structural engineer, and also to your local building inspector. If they both give you the OK, then take it to the acoustician. If not, then you'll first have to re-design the structure to meet all applicable code, laws, and common sense, then go to the acoustician. When I design studios, I frequently work with the structural engineer (and sometimes also with an architect), as a team. They have the skills and knowledge that I don't have, and I have the skills and knowledge they they don't have. Together, we make it work. You should do the same.

Several people have come to the forum over the years with the desire to build a "portable" studio, that they can take apart and move around. We have shown them how to do that, designed as a modular system where the walls and ceiling are built as a series of panels have extra bracing and are bolted together, but as far as I know, nobody has ever actually built one like that. The closest would be the studio that John Sayers designed and built inside a shipping container, but that one is moved as an entire unit: it is not take apart.

Also, if this is a ridiculous idea for some or other reason, please tell me why! I need some guidance!

See above!


- Stuart -

[thepipster]

Several people have come to the forum over the years with the desire to build a "portable" studio, that they can take apart and move around. We have shown them how to do that, designed as a modular system where the walls and ceiling are built as a series of panels have extra bracing and are bolted together,

Hi Stuart,

Thank you for your considered reply! From the above quote (hope it worked) you mentioned that you have shown people how to do this before? I am pretty determined to make this modular studio, could you potentially take me through one of these? I understand if it is a proprietary design and you can't share it, but if not, I would really appreciate the guidance!

Regards,

[Soundman2020]

It looks like you missed the first paragraph of my reply, so I'll repeat it:

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

From the above quote (hope it worked) you mentioned that you have shown people how to do this before? I am pretty determined to make this modular studio, could you potentially take me through one of these? I understand if it is a proprietary design and you can't share it, but if not, I would really appreciate the guidance!

The basic concept is simple: Design the studio exactly as it would be for a permanent build, including the needed isolation, the correct treatment, the HVAC system, etc. Then modify the walls and ceiling such that they can be built in sections just a meter or two wide, with mating surfaces that can be bolted together with suitable seals between them. Then do the same process for the treatment: design it such that it is not permanently attached to the walls/floor/ceiling, perhaps as modules that hang on the wall for lighter weight devices, or sit on the floor for heavier devices but with attachment points higher up to prevent them tipping over if they are top-heavy. The HVAC system is usually "modular" in any case, as each silencer box is fairly independent, so that doesn't need too much extra design work to make it "portable". And the same would apply to furniture: make the desk modular, perhaps with modular rack inserts if you have a lot of outboard gear, such that the modules can be separate from each other. The final step would be to make sure that the individual parts, panels, devices, and modules are strengthened structurally, such that they won't fall apart or suffer too much damage when the studio is disassembled and moved. Some damage is inevitable, so some re-building will be needed at the final destination, but with good design, that can be minimized. For example, rather than using the typical two layers of 16mm drywall on each leaf, I would use one layer of 19mm OSB plus one layer of 16mm drywall instead, with a layer of Green Glue in between, for both the excellent acoustics properties it provides as well as the seal that it provides (but obviously not at all for it's adhesive properties, since it is not adhesive!). I would also use a combination of screws and nails for the OSB layer, with a schedule of more fasteners than is required by code, on both layers.

It would be a challenge, but it is feasible. I'm working on a mastering studio for a customer in North Carolina right now where I am implementing some of these concepts, but not completely, as the owner isn't certain that he'll need to move it, and doesn't want to invest all that extra money in something that he might not ever need to use. He prefers to invest that extra money at the time of the move, if it ever happens, since that would be expensive anyway, and would also involve some reconstruction and repair of damage anyway, regardless of how it is built now.

If you wanted a full design for such a studio, then I could do that for you, but it would have to be a paid project. It's just way too much work to do, and not what the forum is meant for at all. The forum is meant to be a place to get help with specific issues for people who have the basic knowledge and skills needed to design and build their places, but perhaps not in all the detail needed. It's not meant to be a place where people can get a full, complicated studio design for free! I'm pretty sure that wasn't your intention at all, but I'm putting it out there anyway, just to avoid misunderstandings. If you wanted to hire someone to design this place for you, then first contact John Sayers himself, and if he is unable to do that (he's a busy guy!) then PM me, and we can talk.

On the other hand, if you wanted to learn how to design/build it yourself, with the normal free assistance that everyone gets on the forum, then I'd suggest the you read two books: "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (that's sort of the Bible for acoustics), and "Home Recording Studio: Build it Like the Pros", by Rod Gervais. The first one will give you the basics of acoustical theory and practical implementation of acoustic design, and the second one will help you put that into reality in the actual design and construction of the studio. The second one is more of a "nuts and bolts" type book, about how to do many the calculations that you'll need to do, how to design the structure, how to design the doors and windows, how to calculate and design the HVAC system, how to do the framing, how to seal things, etc. The first book is more about the theory behind all of that: the reasons why things have to be done in one way instead of another. Together, they'll give you all the basics that you need to get started on your design. Realistically, it takes about three to six months to learn enough to be able to do the complete design, and another two to four months to actually do it. Then you can start on the actual construction, and that could take anywhere from a couple of months to a couple of years, depending on how you approach it: it can be done faster if you hire an experienced contractor to build it for you, but that will cost a lot. Or you can save a pile of money by doing most of the work yourself, but the build will go a lot slower. There are some parts of the build where you will absolutely have to hire professional people (for legal reasons, as well as for safety and just plain common sense!), such as for the electrical installation, structural calculations, and HVAC, for example, but most of the rest you can do yourself.


Here are two other options for a "portable studio" that you might want to think about:

http://johnlsayers.com/Pages/Spark_1.htm

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 25&p=30206

Those are really good potions if you need a studio that can be moved from place to place.


By the way, you are not the first one to go down this path!

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 1&p=134028

That one ended the way most such threads do...


Here's another link to a thread about portable studios, that also went the way most such threads go:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 3&p=131484



This one too...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 6&p=137632


I'm really, REALLY hoping that you'll be the first to actually do this!



- Stuart -