John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hello everyone. Writing from Columbus, Ohio. First post here. I've been reading for a while now and love all of the info! I'm a live-audio engineer, so I'm good on signal flow and using gear, but not so much on acoustics. Looking forward to your input.

My goal is to build a control/mixing room in my basement. There are no kids or close neighbors to worry about, so isolation isn't a top priority. I'd like a room that sounds pleasant and has a couch for friends or clients to listen in as well.

I may at times do an overdub in my basement (acoustic guitar or vocal), but if I need to record drums, I'll take my Apollo to a local church or school and record the loud stuff elsewhere. Overall, I don't think I'll play my near-fields over 100db.

I do have some flexibility with the size of this build. I'm taking the far end of a long room (13'4" x 41") and enclosing part of it for my mixing room. I'm planning on my room being about 13'4" x 18'ish. The two long walls and the far-end wall are all concrete bricks with a couple of windows/openings (see sketch below). I would like to have outside light coming into the room if possible, but I'm not married to this idea. The crawl space opening can be covered, however it needs to be easily accessible.

The height of the ceiling is (sigh) 6'11". Yeah, I know... ouch, and it is currently a smooth drywall ceiling. My overall plan is to not necessarily create a full-on room within a room, but rather to add angled walls and acoustic treatment (traps and panels). Perhaps this will eliminate some HVAC requirements?
THOUGHTS AND QUESTIONS:
1. My budget is around $2500 give or take. Since I don't need this to be isolated, I'm optimistic this will cover it.

2. I have an unlimited supply to Tectum (google it). Their factory is close by and they have piles and piles of extras available for the taking.

3. I prefer to have people enter through the 'finished' side of the basement, but I could have them pass the utilities and come through that doorway (which is a possible location for a future iso booth, but that's not part of this discussion).

4. The windows and crawl-space entrance are 4'9" and 4'3" off the floor respectively. Windows reach the ceiling. Crawl space opening has 10" above it that touches the ceiling.

5. Ceiling- Would it be helpful to remove the drywall and insert as much insulation as a I can in the joists, then maybe hang a cloud?

6. My thought is to face either the west or east side (assuming north is up on the drawing). The challenge is then where to enter the room.

7. Lastly, one thought I had, just thinking outside the box, is to build my 1 wall with a way for the sound (especially low end) to leave the room but not come back in. I know a mastering engineer that used this technique instead of bass traps and he really likes it.

Just for fun, I put one of the basic studio designs over my room layout. Here it is. (Sorry to not use SketchUp, but I can not get the hang of that app!) THANK YOU everyone for reading and responding.

Hi there "FOHFill", and Welcome!!

Congrats on your studio build! That's a usable space... the ceiling is REALLY low, but one possibility would be take off the drywall and gain the depth of the joists. It won't make any difference to your visual height, of course, but it can make a big difference to your acoustic ceiling height. Floor joists are commonly 10", so you'd have close to 8' of acoustic ceiling height, if you are lucky.

Yes, that would reduce the isolation to the rest of the house, but you did say that isolation is not an issue for you...

My overall plan is to not necessarily create a full-on room within a room, but rather to add angled walls and acoustic treatment (traps and panels). Perhaps this will eliminate some HVAC requirements?

I'm not sure why you would think that. Angling your walls and adding treatment will not affect air flow, temperature, or humidity in any manner that I can think of. Why do you think that there would be a change in HVAC just from adding acoustic treatment and angled walls? Or maybe that was a typo?

2. I have an unlimited supply to Tectum (google it). Their factory is close by and they have piles and piles of extras available for the taking.

What is Tectum? I don't have a lot of spare time, so if you don't tell me, then I won't ever know...

5. Ceiling- Would it be helpful to remove the drywall and insert as much insulation as a I can in the joists, then maybe hang a cloud?

Very likely, yes.

6. My thought is to face either the west or east side (assuming north is up on the drawing). The challenge is then where to enter the room.

Probably facing east (to the right of the page) would be the best option. There's no windows or crawl space issues to deal with there.

The challenge is then where to enter the room.

You could move the doorway! It sounds like a massively huge, but it's probably not as bad as you think. Assuming that this is not a load-bearing wall, it would be pretty easy, but even if it is load-bearing, it can still be done.

7. Lastly, one thought I had, just thinking outside the box, is to build my 1 wall with a way for the sound (especially low end) to leave the room but not come back in.

How do you propose to do that?

I know a mastering engineer that used this technique instead of bass traps and he really likes it.

Well, you certainly will need bass traps in the room, but that's not what you were talking about with your "one-way wall" that passes sound in only one direction but not the other!

It's a small room, with very, very low ceilings, so absolutely you will need abundant bass trapping.

Just for fun, I put one of the basic studio designs over my room layout. Here it is.

You could do it that way, yes, gut it would be a shame to block all the windows light into the room like that. It also seems like quite a bit of overkill to use such an expensive door just to access the crawl space!

Sorry to not use SketchUp, but I can not get the hang of that

Take a look on YouTube: there are several rather good tutorials on the basics. It's a bit quirky, yes, and the learning curve is a bit steep to start with, but you are going to need it sooner or later so you might as well get started now!!


- Stuart -

Hey Stuart,

Good insights. I'll try to elaborate some and maybe that will help explain a couple of things. I said I didn't want to do a full-on room inside a room because (in my head) the new ceiling would have to be even lower than the existing one since I'd have to put a new one in that's even lower than the one already there.

That also explains my thoughts on the HVAC. If I were to create an air-tight room inside a room, then I assumed I'd have to get heat and air in there.

I like the idea of facing "east" so I can have the natural light coming in from the windows. So, then my question is how to bass-trap that wall; just go around the windows? Should I put new windows in my new wall (so the light goes through both), or just build the new wall around the existing windows?

Oh, yes, Tectum. I didn't add a link because I didn't want to get flagged for spam. But, here it is. http://www.tectum.com/iw-acoustical-pan ... hotos.html They make acoustic treatment panels. I think they mainly do large rooms like gyms, etc. As I mentioned, they have stacks and stacks of leftovers, so I can go get as much as I need. I don't think they're good for anything lower than 300Hz, so I do know I'll need plenty of bass trapping.

Back to this ceiling situation- Remove the existing drywall and stuff the joists full of fiberglass?? How do you feel about a cloud in a room this small?

Thanks again! I'm not in a huge rush for this, but looking forward to getting started. Thank you!

Phil

I didn't want to do a full-on room inside a room because (in my head) the new ceiling would have to be even lower than the existing one since I'd have to put a new one in that's even lower than the one already there.

... or you could just take out the one that is already there and re-do it for maximum isolation... A little extra work and expense, a very minor loss in head room, but a major change in isolation.

That also explains my thoughts on the HVAC. If I were to create an air-tight room inside a room, then I assumed I'd have to get heat and air in there.

If you want any isolation at all, then your room absolutely MUST be sealed air-tight! A room that is not air-tight, is not isolate. If there's even a tiny gap or crack where air can get in or out, then so can sound.

So, then my question is how to bass-trap that wall; just go around the windows?

You don't seem to be doing an RFZ design, nor soffit-mounting your speakers, so you could just do the bass traps towards the top and bottom of the wall (above and below the windows), where they are most effective. You can leave out part of the bass trap in the middle section (vertically speaking). You could also run bass traps horizontally in the wall/ceiling corner, and the wall/floor corner. Most people tend to think that a room has four corners: actually, it has twelve, and they are all really good at bass trapping...

Should I put new windows in my new wall (so the light goes through both),

Right!

Oh, yes, Tectum. I didn't add a link because I didn't want to get flagged for spam.

No problem with that! It's OK to post links to products that you are thinking of using for your build. Spammers usually make their intentions abundantly obvious, and get canned real fast, but it's very legitimate to provide links for a real build. Don't worry about that. (See this one for a bit of fun : http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 89#p141089 that's how spammers normally behave...)

As I mentioned, they have stacks and stacks of leftovers, so I can go get as much as I need.

Which specific products? A quick glance at their website shows that they have several products. Their "acoustical wall" panels seem to have quite decent specs. I found this: http://www.tectum.com/products/Tectum_A ... _Sheet.pdf

I don't think they're good for anything lower than 300Hz, so I do know I'll need plenty of bass trapping.

I wouldn't use it for bass trapping either, but the specs are actually reasonable at low-mid frequencies. That would probably be fine for first reflection points, front wall, and under your cloud if you do manage to fit one in, for example.

Back to this ceiling situation- Remove the existing drywall and stuff the joists full of fiberglass??

Yep! But if you want isolation as well, then put up some RSIC clips on the joists, fit hat channel to those, and hang drywall from that. Take care that the there's a small gap all around the edge of that new ceiling, so it does not touch the walls. Insert backer rod in that gap, then caulk. Bingo! decoupled ceiling....

How do you feel about a cloud in a room this small?

With only 7' to play with, I don't think you'll have enough room for a cloud, unfortunately. Clouds are great, but they do take up a lot of headroom, especially considering that for maximum effect they need to be angled. If you can get one in, between the speakers and the desk, where it won't be in your way, then excellent!

Thanks again! I'm not in a huge rush for this, but looking forward to getting started. Thank you!

My other suggestion would be for you to spend some time getting up to speed on SketchUp. It's a great tool for designing your studio.

- Stuart -