Soffit Mount and Bass Trap guidance needed.

[fractalz]

Hi -

Okay, so I've read through the FAQ, searched the forum for my questions and have come up blank.

OVERVIEW
---------
We just purchased a home that has a 28' x 14' x 9.5' room that I will be using for my home studio. I want the room to function as a mixing space and a performance / jam space. See pictures below.

studio-long.jpg

studio-front.jpg

studio-back.jpg

SOUND LEVELS
------------
When mixing, I run 65-85dB. Most of my sound sources go direct-in : V-Drums, Fractal AxeFX, etc. I expect to occasionally have friends over to jam, and I do like to move air with my guitars every once in a while. I'm not particularly worried about bothering neighbors (we are set back). I would like some help isolating sound from the rest of the house, but I'm by no means shooting for soundproof. Ideally, I can fill the opening next to the fireplace that goes to another room, and install a double door at the existing entrance.

EXISTING CONSTRUCTION
----------------------
Originally built in the 1890's, this house has hardwood floors and plaster walls and ceilings.

King.skp

PROJECT OVERVIEW
----------------
I'm looking for advice in a few areas that I do not have enough experience to address myself.

floorplan.jpg

1. build some sort of structure to place in front of the far window behind a SSL AWS 948 mixing console. Ideally allowing my Focal Trio6 Be's to be flush mounted and hold a large (50-60") monitor.

I like the "cowlings" that Francis Manzella creates (see below) for creating a reflection-free mix position. I would like to create something along these lines. This will block the window, helping a bit with sound exiting the house. This would also provide a large volume for bass trapping.

raia-4.jpg

2. Since the room is 28' long X 14' wide, I think I will have problems with room modes. I'm wondering if I can build out the back of the room by some amount to shorten this dimension. Possibly with bass traps, tuned cavities, storage, and/or isolation areas. If I do this, it will give me two places I can place doors to create a sound lock : original opening (~5' wide, I believe) and another opening created by the bass traps, some depth into the room. I'm thinking of framing the 5' width in to provide a single door. Maybe a 4' wide door to allow better movement of equipment in/out.

3. I do not know the best way to fill the space between the two adjoining rooms. I can imagine framing it out, but do not know how I should fill it or treat the part facing into the studio.

4. I have a 4x4' WhisperRoom vocal booth. I'm not sure where to put it. Maybe inside the back wall buildout?

5. I am thinking about putting my mix position on a slight riser to allow cables to route underneath it. I imagine the cowling, console, and seating area on an elevated platform of 4" or so and an equipment rack behind me.

NOTE : I do not wish to damage the floors or plaster walls, so I'm looking at freestanding elements where possible.

I believe I can handle working out side wall and ceiling reflection points and placing proper absorption and diffusion in these areas.

BUDGET
-------
Once designed, I think this will be a fairly straight-forward built with standard materials. I doubt it would go over $10k but I don't have a problem if it does. I will hire local trades to do the work. I'm not a DIYer.

SUMMARY
--------
My main goals are to :

1. get design ideas for the cowling & riser
2. address the 2x multiple of room dimensions
3. seal the opening between the two rooms

I hope I've provided enough information. My "drawing" was intentionally simple but highlights the areas I want to address. The ceilings are 9.5' so there would be room over the doors to fill with additional treatment.

[fractalz]

I don't seem to be able to upload my current SKP file (20M). I've attached some images from the updated SKP file, which can be downloaded here: https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/frac ... ew.skp.zip

King-New (top).jpg

King-New (front).jpg

King-New (rear).jpg

Also, if there is anything I did wrong in my initial post that would prevent a response, please let me know.

[JasonFoi]

Hi, and welcome, I am NOT an expert, but I can help point you in the right direction a bit till an expert can help..

Also, if there is anything I did wrong in my initial post that would prevent a response, please let me know.

No, but more than likely Stuart is extremely busy. Just be patient, free help isn't always fast..

You should pick up a copy of Rod Gervais's book. That will help get you started.

SUMMARY
--------
My main goals are to :

1. get design ideas for the cowling & riser
2. address the 2x multiple of room dimensions
3. seal the opening between the two rooms

1. cowling/riser: I don't know much about cowlings, but I have not seen too many mix positions placed on risers, and this may be difficult and expensive to get right. It would have to be extremely solid to avoid resonance. I would try to keep things simple if I were you..

2. room dimensions: take a look at the "amroc room mode calculator" and bob gold's room mode calculators. They will help you to find suitable dimensions. Try and find something with good modal distribution, dimensions within or close to the bolt area, and a good bonello curve.

3. openings: I would find good dimensions and get a plan before you worry about this. Sealing up a wall is not too complicated.

NOTE : I do not wish to damage the floors or plaster walls, so I'm looking at freestanding elements where possible.

I'm not sure you'll be able to achieve all of your goals with freestanding elements, but I'll let an expert chime in there..

I'm wondering if I can build out the back of the room by some amount to shorten this dimension. Possibly with bass traps, tuned cavities, storage, and/or isolation areas. If I do this, it will give me two places I can place doors to create a sound lock : original opening (~5' wide, I believe) and another opening created by the bass traps, some depth into the room. I'm thinking of framing the 5' width in to provide a single door. Maybe a 4' wide door to allow better movement of equipment in/out.

Yes, sort of. You can build a new wall and divide up the space, but a bass trap is not a wall. It has to be a solid air tight boundary. Bass traps are used to absorb low end energy and tame problems associated with room modes, not divide rooms.

I wouldn't try to have an all in one type of room if you want to be serious about mixing in there. You need a dedicated symmetrical control room for mixing and a separate area for recording. Acoustically, they are two very different spaces.

That's all I'll comment on for now. Hopefully Stuart or one of the other experts can get to you shortly. In the meantime, read over the forum and rod's book and search for suitable dimensions for your space.

Best wishes,
Jason

[Soundman2020]

Hi there "fractalz", and welcome!

Jason pretty much hit the main points, but I'd like to add a bit more to what he already (correctly!) said:

I would like some help isolating sound from the rest of the house, but I'm by no means shooting for soundproof.

You plan to record in there as well, right? So you'll need to track vocals and acoustic guitar, for example? It's a while since I was last in Mountain View, but I do recall that it rains there, occasionally. And you get thunder storms every now and then. And there are noisy freeways around. And aircraft flying overhead. And sirens. And helicopters. And doubtless your neighbors have lawnmowers, cars, dogs, ... Lots of sounds that could trash your recordings... Not to mention sounds in the house itself, such as the TV, radio, vacuum cleaner, doors opening and closing, water running in pipes, toilets flushing, .... Are you OK with all of that getting into your mics in your recording sessions?

Originally built in the 1890's, this house has hardwood floors and plaster walls and ceilings.

When you say "plaster", do you mean that those are masonry walls / ceiling that have been plastered? Or do you mean that they are typical stud walls with drywall attached, then plastered and painted? Those are two very different scenarios, acoustically.

1. build some sort of structure to place in front of the far window behind a SSL AWS 948 mixing console. Ideally allowing my Focal Trio6 Be's to be flush mounted and hold a large (50-60") monitor.

A typical RFX front end would accomplish all of those (assuming that you really are aiming for RFZ-style acosutics).

I like the "cowlings" that Francis Manzella creates (see below) for creating a reflection-free mix position.

I doubt that! from looking at that photo, I very much doubt that what is show there produces a true reflection-free area around the mix position. I'd also like to see the acoustic response graphs from such a construction, where there is no absorption behind the speakers, and instead there is tuned mid-range diffusion? A rather strange way to create neutral acoustics...

I would like to create something along these lines.

Why? What is your main reason for choosing that over a conventional design?

This will block the window, helping a bit with sound exiting the house.

No it wont. If you hold your hand up a few inches in front of your mouth and then speak, can people in front of you hear what you are saying? Of course they can. Ditto with this design: it will not provide good isolation. In order to get proper isolation, you need hermetic (air-tight) seals. Put your hand over your mouth again, but this time completely covering it and sealing up against your lips, all around. Talk now. can anyone here you? Case closed.

This would also provide a large volume for bass trapping.

So will a properly done conventional soffit-mount RFZ design. Much better, in fact.

2. Since the room is 28' long X 14' wide, I think I will have problems with room modes.

Correct. There will be large issues at roughly 40 Hz, 72 Hz, 81 Hz, 91 Hz, 100 Hz, 108 Hz, 121 Hz, and a whole bunch of others.

I'm wondering if I can build out the back of the room by some amount to shorten this dimension. Possibly with bass traps, tuned cavities,

Bass traps and tuned cavities do not change the dimensions of the room. It will still be the same length, width and height. Modal response is defined by that actually physical hard, massive boundaries of the room, not bey any acoustic treatment that happens to be in it. In order to change the room length, you would have to build a new wall that completely shuts off one end of the room. It would have to run from floor to ceiling and side wall to side wall.

4. I have a 4x4' WhisperRoom vocal booth. I'm not sure where to put it. Maybe inside the back wall buildout?

4' x 4'? Notice something strange about that? Big-time modal issues. Major. At 141 Hz., 158 Hz, 200 Hz, 212 Hz, 254, Hz, 282 Hz, and a really huge one at 315 Hz.... Not such good dimensions for recording vocals!

5. I am thinking about putting my mix position on a slight riser to allow cables to route underneath it. I imagine the cowling, console, and seating area on an elevated platform of 4" or so

Bad idea. That would create a resonant cavity under your floor, which would potentially trash both isolation and also room acoustics, for the same reasons as a badly done floating floor would. This might help: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

NOTE : I do not wish to damage the floors or plaster walls, so I'm looking at freestanding elements where possible.

How do you plan to build a wall across the rear of the room without damaging the floor?

Anything you build in there is going to damage the floor, to some extent. Even the weight of a sofa or table can mar a floor, so imagine what thousands of pounds of wood, drywall, insulation, and all the rest might do? Perhaps your best bet is to put down some type of protective underlay, then a thick layer of plywood, and build on to of that. I'm not sure if it would pass code, though: You are in an earthquake area, and you'll probably find that anything you do in there will need to be anchored to the floor, including that "cowling" thing. You don't want that thing slamming around the room in a quake! It would kill you.

I've attached some images from the updated SKP file,

The speakers appear to be placed too high. It's not clear from that image, but it looks very much like the acoustic axes of those speakers are way above the correct height.

Jason covered pretty much everything else.


- Stuart -

[fractalz]

Hi - thanks for the response.

Hi there "fractalz", and welcome!

Jason pretty much hit the main points, but I'd like to add a bit more to what he already (correctly!) said:

I would like some help isolating sound from the rest of the house, but I'm by no means shooting for soundproof.

You plan to record in there as well, right? So you'll need to track vocals and acoustic guitar, for example? It's a while since I was last in Mountain View, but I do recall that it rains there, occasionally. And you get thunder storms every now and then. And there are noisy freeways around. And aircraft flying overhead. And sirens. And helicopters. And doubtless your neighbors have lawnmowers, cars, dogs, ... Lots of sounds that could trash your recordings... Not to mention sounds in the house itself, such as the TV, radio, vacuum cleaner, doors opening and closing, water running in pipes, toilets flushing, .... Are you OK with all of that getting into your mics in your recording sessions?

The home is actually on Portland, OR. We are moving from Mt. View. Most of my recording is direct-in. Roland V-Drums, Fractal AxeaFx. I use the Whisper Room for vocals.

Originally built in the 1890's, this house has hardwood floors and plaster walls and ceilings.

When you say "plaster", do you mean that those are masonry walls / ceiling that have been plastered? Or do you mean that they are typical stud walls with drywall attached, then plastered and painted? Those are two very different scenarios, acoustically.

I'm still learning about 1890's construction methods. I gather that you can't pound nails into the walls given the picture rails at the top of the walls. I don't think it is drywall. Plaster over slats most likely.

1. build some sort of structure to place in front of the far window behind a SSL AWS 948 mixing console. Ideally allowing my Focal Trio6 Be's to be flush mounted and hold a large (50-60") monitor.

A typical RFX front end would accomplish all of those (assuming that you really are aiming for RFZ-style acosutics).

Yes, that is what I'm going for. I can build the angled walls floor to ceiling and edge to edge. That is basically what is in the drawing with a slight space. I'm new to sketchup and not able to get things perfect.

I like the "cowlings" that Francis Manzella creates (see below) for creating a reflection-free mix position.

I doubt that! from looking at that photo, I very much doubt that what is show there produces a true reflection-free area around the mix position. I'd also like to see the acoustic response graphs from such a construction, where there is no absorption behind the speakers, and instead there is tuned mid-range diffusion? A rather strange way to create neutral acoustics...

I would like to create something along these lines.

Why? What is your main reason for choosing that over a conventional design?

I guess it seemed conventional to me . So let's rephrase and say I want an RFZ wit flush mounted speakers - Focal Trio6 Be.

This will block the window, helping a bit with sound exiting the house.

No it wont. If you hold your hand up a few inches in front of your mouth and then speak, can people in front of you hear what you are saying? Of course they can. Ditto with this design: it will not provide good isolation. In order to get proper isolation, you need hermetic (air-tight) seals. Put your hand over your mouth again, but this time completely covering it and sealing up against your lips, all around. Talk now. can anyone here you? Case closed.

This would also provide a large volume for bass trapping.

So will a properly done conventional soffit-mount RFZ design. Much better, in fact.

Ok!

2. Since the room is 28' long X 14' wide, I think I will have problems with room modes.

Correct. There will be large issues at roughly 40 Hz, 72 Hz, 81 Hz, 91 Hz, 100 Hz, 108 Hz, 121 Hz, and a whole bunch of others.

I'm wondering if I can build out the back of the room by some amount to shorten this dimension. Possibly with bass traps, tuned cavities,

Bass traps and tuned cavities do not change the dimensions of the room. It will still be the same length, width and height. Modal response is defined by that actually physical hard, massive boundaries of the room, not bey any acoustic treatment that happens to be in it. In order to change the room length, you would have to build a new wall that completely shuts off one end of the room. It would have to run from floor to ceiling and side wall to side wall.

My thought with the rear wall was to build it out a bit from the wall as dead space and then build the bass trap in front of that.

4. I have a 4x4' WhisperRoom vocal booth. I'm not sure where to put it. Maybe inside the back wall buildout?

4' x 4'? Notice something strange about that? Big-time modal issues. Major. At 141 Hz., 158 Hz, 200 Hz, 212 Hz, 254, Hz, 282 Hz, and a really huge one at 315 Hz.... Not such good dimensions for recording vocals!

5. I am thinking about putting my mix position on a slight riser to allow cables to route underneath it. I imagine the cowling, console, and seating area on an elevated platform of 4" or so

Bad idea. That would create a resonant cavity under your floor, which would potentially trash both isolation and also room acoustics, for the same reasons as a badly done floating floor would. This might help: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

Ok. No riser.

NOTE : I do not wish to damage the floors or plaster walls, so I'm looking at freestanding elements where possible.

How do you plan to build a wall across the rear of the room without damaging the floor?

Anything you build in there is going to damage the floor, to some extent. Even the weight of a sofa or table can mar a floor, so imagine what thousands of pounds of wood, drywall, insulation, and all the rest might do? Perhaps your best bet is to put down some type of protective underlay, then a thick layer of plywood, and build on to of that. I'm not sure if it would pass code, though: You are in an earthquake area, and you'll probably find that anything you do in there will need to be anchored to the floor, including that "cowling" thing. You don't want that thing slamming around the room in a quake! It would kill you.

Fewer quakes in Portland. I was thinking some soft layer under the framing.

I've attached some images from the updated SKP file,

The speakers appear to be placed too high. It's not clear from that image, but it looks very much like the acoustic axes of those speakers are way above the correct height.

Yes, I figured I may have to angle them down. Again, dimensions are not exact.

So, my main questions still are :

- Is there a detailed reference design for a RFZ flush mount speaker front wal?. I need help with all the details, how do you frame it, exactly where do the insulation, air gaps and hangars go.

- for the rear wall, how much room should I lose before I star with treatment. Same as above, can I find, or hire out, detailed drawings of framing et. al. That I can hand off to a carpenter to do the work?

[fractalz]

I'm also using the book "Home Recording Studio - Build it Like The Pros" by Rod Gervais.

For example, this seems like a good design for the rear wall:

f0222-01.jpg

And this claims to be a side view, but I doesn't really look like the two line up. Maybe they are different approaches?

f0223-01.jpg

I'm not completely 3D impaired, but these are a little mystifying.

Also, I've been looking at the designs on this site for the flush mount and like this idea:

SPKRMNT9.jpg

I appreciate all the direct and on-point feedback above. This room will be my personal playground, geared for direct-in recording and critical listening and mixing. I want to address the major issues that will hit me due to room geometry, but this will not be a commercial space. If I want to go that way, I'll rent some space in town and build it up right.

I can turn off the roomba and kick people out of the house when I need it quiet (there are 4 floors, plenty of space for people to escape to if I'm noisy or if I need quiet).

I will have folks over to jam, but we'll use in-ears running through a Behringer X32 with P16Ms for each musician if we get serious, or just move some air if we are having fun.

[fractalz]

2. room dimensions: take a look at the "amroc room mode calculator" and bob gold's room mode calculators. They will help you to find suitable dimensions. Try and find something with good modal distribution, dimensions within or close to the bolt area, and a good bonello curve.

Yes, the Amroc calculator says that 23.5 x 14 x 9.5 gets me into the Bolt area. It's a shame to lose 4.5' in length but if it will really make a difference I can do it. I was hoping the RFZ setup in the front would contribute to that shortening, but it appears from the other comments that that is not the case.

So, I can build the rear of the room forward 4' or so. I'm just not sure what goes in there. Is it just a new wall 4' into the room, do I need to bulk it up somehow? Should that space do anything in terms of acoustic treatment or is it really just dead space (maybe I can turn it into storage)?

[fractalz]

Finally, I suppose another option is to divide the space, for example, into a 14x12 control room and a 14x16 live space.

That's not really the vibe I'm going for since it is mostly just me in the room recording everything. But, maybe that creates some better options?

[Soundman2020]

I'm still learning about 1890's construction methods. I gather that you can't pound nails into the walls given the picture rails at the top of the walls. I don't think it is drywall. Plaster over slats most likely.

It would be good if you can identify the details of how it is built, as you will likely need to know that when you build your room. There's probably studs in there some place, but they might not be at one of the standard spacings. A good "stud finder" tool might help you figure out where they are. The reason I mention that is because you'll need to know where they are at the rear of the room, in order to tie in your new rear wall to the existing side walls. You might also need to attached parts of your soffits to the walls.

What is under the hardwood floor? Hopefully, there's a concrete slab-on-grade down there some place...

Yes, that is what I'm going for. I can build the angled walls floor to ceiling and edge to edge. That is basically what is in the drawing with a slight space.

Excellent! That gives you more options, and a batter chance of getting reasonable isolation. It would be good to check how much isolation you are getting right now: You'll need a hand-held sound level meter for that. If you don't have one already, you can pick up a decent one on ebay or Amazon for around US$ 100 or so (avoid the cheap chines junk, under US$ 50!).

So let's rephrase and say I want an RFZ wit flush mounted speakers - Focal Trio6 Be.

Nice speakers! Front ported, no rear heat sink (not even much heat buildup at all!), good power, good size, good response. Those should work well soffited, in that size room.

My thought with the rear wall was to build it out a bit from the wall as dead space and then build the bass trap in front of that.

You mean by just building a wall across the rear of the room, a few feet in from the existing wall? Then building the bass traps in front of that? If that's what you have in mind, that's perfect.

Fewer quakes in Portland. I was thinking some soft layer under the framing.

Check your local building code: it probably still requires that internal framing must be anchored properly, quakes or no quakes. Most cities and states use the same basic national / "international" code these days, so you'd be subject to that.

Yes, I figured I may have to angle them down.

Angling speakers down is not a good idea, for several reasons. One is that having your speakers higher up and tilted downwards greatly increases reflections off the desk/console surface and into your ears, causing comb filtering and all the other issues associated with first reflections inside the Haas window. Another big one is related to psycho-acoustics: the way our ears perceive sound. It's complex to explain, but basically our ears/brains are "tuned" to deal best with sounds coming at us from the horizon, not above it. Sounds that arrive from slightly above the horizon can be misinterpreted by our brains, and seem to come from different direction ON the horizon, and with a frequency shift. The maximum angle that you'd even want is about 7° above horizontal, but personally I have never designed any room with an angle greater than 4.5°. I wouldn't go above 5°. Some places on the internet say 10°, and some say a whopping 15°, but that's too much for a precision listening environment. Yet another reason is the construction complexity: tilting the soffit face and speaker mount is not trivial: Your carpenters will have to cut wood very accurately at unusual angles that they are not used to, and many of those will be compound cuts (angled in two directions at once), since the soffit face is already turned by around 30° (give or take a few degrees), so adding an additional 5° tilt makes the construction a lot more complex. Lots of things will need cutting at strange angles. Been there, done that, would not recommend it for the faint of heart!

So I would suggest that you bring your speakers down a bit, such that the acoustic axis is at the standard height, or maybe a little above it (maybe an inch or two, max), and NOT tilted down. Keep them flat.

- Is there a detailed reference design for a RFZ flush mount speaker front wal?. I need help with all the details, how do you frame it, exactly where do the insulation, air gaps and hangars go.

There are many threads on the forum where people show how they did it in there studios. I could show you a few designs that I have done, too. But the basic issue is that those might not work for you. All rooms are different, all soffits are different, and each needs to be designed to fit the room it goes in. Even getting the toe-in angle correct is different for each room, then getting the wing panels angled correctly to create the RFZ is another issue. The exact angles and locations will depend on your specific room.

But the basic concept is this: Frame it to be very, very rigid, and very heavy, put a thick, heavy shelf at the correct height that will place the final acoustic axis at the correct height, and cut a "slot" in the shelf to provide ventilation airflow up past the rear panel of the speaker. Build a rigid, heavy enclosure box on top of that shelf to hold the speaker in place rigidly and firmly. Put hangers in the area under the shelf, down to the floor. Put a very, very very heavy front baffle on, with a hole cut in it at the correct location, just a couple of mm larger than the speaker face. The baffle can end just below the height of the desk surface. Build a box below that, 4" deep, the full width of the soffit, and down to within 12" of the floor, and put 4" of OC-703 in it. Cover with the fabric or your choice breathable). The baffle should extend up at least a couple of feet above the top of the speaker, and where it ends put a top panel horizontally at the same height, above the speaker. Fill the internal cavity all around the speaker with insulation off-cuts, as much as you can, except for the area around the rear of the speaker, where you need to fashion some sort of "chimney" for the ventilation airflow. That chimney needs to exit into the room at some point, and must be kept clear of insulation. Fill the area above the top panel with insulation as well, up to the ceiling, as a bass trap. Put a cloth front on it (breathable).

That's about it, as far as the concept goes, but it's a bit more complicated than that in reality. And once again, all rooms are different, and the soffit needs to be specifically designed for your room and your speakers.

- for the rear wall, how much room should I lose before I star with treatment.

I'm not sure what you mean. The treatment starts right at the rear wall. It goes up right against the rear wall surface: After you build your new rear wall in the correct location, the treatment goes directly up against that: It could be either hangers across the entire rear wall, or it could be superchunk bass traps in the corners (large ones) and thick porous absorption across the rest of the rear wall, perhaps with some type of diffuser in front of that, if the room is large enough.

Same as above, can I find, or hire out, detailed drawings of framing et. al. That I can hand off to a carpenter to do the work?

Buying ready-made plans from someone would not work, as all rooms are different, and need different treatment in different places. That would only work if your room was the exact same size and shape as the other guy's room. There's no such thing as "one size fits all" in studio design: each studio is individual.

You should perhaps consider hiring a studio designer to do this for you. He can design your soffits and your rear wall, plus treatment, then help you add the other treatment where it is needed, and tune the room. Done like that, you could indeed give the design to a carpenter and he would then build it for you. I have done quite a few rooms like that for my customers. Here's one where the customer himself is a contractor and also a carpenter, so he did all the work himself: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =2&t=20471 Look around the forum, especially the section on rooms John has designed / built: there's quite a few with soffited speakers that were built in the same way.

If you don't want to do that, then here too you'll find many, many examples on the forum of how members have built the rear ends of their rooms. You could get ideas from some of that, adapting it to your own room.

A third option would be to learn how to do the design yourself. Realistically, that would take you a few months to learn, then another few weeks to actually work through the design process.

Lots of options!

That's a nice looking room, by the way! Good possibilities, if you don't want any additional isolation.


- Stuart -

[TomVan]

Hey Guys
If I may add some assistance.
Those are Lath and plaster walls. Zero support when attaching anything to it.
Finding a stud can sometimes be difficult even with a stud finder since there are lots of nails used and sometimes metal lath is installed as well.
Very costly to repair or have installed. And a huge mess to demo
Peace
T

[fractalz]

Hey Guys
If I may add some assistance.
Those are Lath and plaster walls. Zero support when attaching anything to it.
Finding a stud can sometimes be difficult even with a stud finder since there are lots of nails used and sometimes metal lath is installed as well.
Very costly to repair or have installed. And a huge mess to demo
Peace
T

Yeah, that's what I fear I'm dealing with...

[fractalz]

You should perhaps consider hiring a studio designer to do this for you. He can design your soffits and your rear wall, plus treatment, then help you add the other treatment where it is needed, and tune the room. Done like that, you could indeed give the design to a carpenter and he would then build it for you.

I think that's where I'm at. I've talked to some folks that have pre-made products that they want to sell in vast quantities to fill your room. I'd rather have someone design a custom solution and help see the project through.

I have enough knowledge to think I know how to do it, but enough wisdom to know I'd be a fool to try.

Thanks!

[Soundman2020]

You might want to contact John Sayers himself, and ask him to quote for designing your place. If he can't (he's pretty busy), then let me know by PM, and I can put you in contact with other trusted studio designers.

One thing: Be careful of unsolicited offers you might get for studio design services, coming from supposed forum members: lately I've seen some evidence of other studio "designers" using the forum as a lead generator: they hang around, looking for unsuspecting forum members like yourself who might need help, then offer all kinds of wonderful solutions, at "cheap" prices. Watch out for those guys! I'd be happy to put you in touch with other studio designers, but you'll make the first contact, not them! I only recommend people I trust, and they won't contact you first (unless I let you know in advance that they will).

- Stuart -

[fractalz]

You might want to contact John Sayers himself, and ask him to quote for designing your place. If he can't (he's pretty busy), then let me know by PM, and I can put you in contact with other trusted studio designers.

One thing: Be careful of unsolicited offers you might get for studio design services, coming from supposed forum members: lately I've seen some evidence of other studio "designers" using the forum as a lead generator: they hang around, looking for unsuspecting forum members like yourself who might need help, then offer all kinds of wonderful solutions, at "cheap" prices. Watch out for those guys! I'd be happy to put you in touch with other studio designers, but you'll make the first contact, not them! I only recommend people I trust, and they won't contact you first (unless I let you know in advance that they will).

- Stuart -

Awesome - will do!

Thanks!

[fractalz]

But the basic concept is this: Frame it to be very, very rigid, and very heavy, put a thick, heavy shelf at the correct height that will place the final acoustic axis at the correct height, and cut a "slot" in the shelf to provide ventilation airflow up past the rear panel of the speaker. Build a rigid, heavy enclosure box on top of that shelf to hold the speaker in place rigidly and firmly. Put hangers in the area under the shelf, down to the floor. Put a very, very very heavy front baffle on, with a hole cut in it at the correct location, just a couple of mm larger than the speaker face. The baffle can end just below the height of the desk surface. Build a box below that, 4" deep, the full width of the soffit, and down to within 12" of the floor, and put 4" of OC-703 in it. Cover with the fabric or your choice breathable). The baffle should extend up at least a couple of feet above the top of the speaker, and where it ends put a top panel horizontally at the same height, above the speaker. Fill the internal cavity all around the speaker with insulation off-cuts, as much as you can, except for the area around the rear of the speaker, where you need to fashion some sort of "chimney" for the ventilation airflow. That chimney needs to exit into the room at some point, and must be kept clear of insulation. Fill the area above the top panel with insulation as well, up to the ceiling, as a bass trap. Put a cloth front on it (breathable).

That is a good outline and I've seen designs like this. Some designs have the speaker soffit across the corner of the room. Is there any advantage to the design I showed above where there is a larger space behind the speakers and front wall to add additional treatment. My idea was to create a larger space to treat my most troublesome room modes.

Here is a rough sketch showing the two ideas assuming the existing walls can be part of the structure. Is this end of the room an appropriate place to have more treatment, or is that really for the rear of the room. I have a long room, so I can easily give up some space on the console end.

Knowing which direction to go will help with overall space planning.

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