John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi everybody. Brand new to this forum and the whole concept of building an isolated space, so I apologize in advance for my ineptitude here.

I'm a voice actor in the LA area (North Hollywood's Burbank border, to be more precise), and my goal since purchasing this house last December is to build a free-standing structure in my backyard for my voice over work. I talked to a consultant about what I'm hoping to achieve, and he gave me the impression that if I hire a contractor to do the job, I can expect to spend about $80k all together. I was hoping for something more in the $20k ballpark, so I'm coming here to see if I can bounce ideas off more knowledgeable folks to get it to a budget that's more within my reach.

I have (or will have, once I remove a couple of trees) a roughly 20' by 13' space to work with, and I'd like to use as much of it as I possibly can. I'm hoping to do a large control room and a small iso-booth, and ideally, I'd like to be able to switch the two in a pinch if I ever do a group recording session and need the larger space for the actors. I tried to attach a .skp of my daydream concept, but my post attempts don't seem to be working, so I'm trying this again without the attachment to see if it'll go through.

Isolation is the main factor, as I live about 5 minutes away from Bob Hope Airport, and those 747s are loud when they take off. Acoustics aren't much of a concern; all I'm doing is VO, and I've already got 34 ATS Acoustics 2'x4' 4-inch thick panels crowded into the guest bedroom I'm using as a temporary space (transplants from the basement I was using in the townhouse I used to live in).

I'm early in planning stages, obviously, but I know that "room-within-a-room" is the best way to approach isolation. I'm wondering if the best way to achieve what I'm going for without breaking the bank isn't to just order a Tuff Shed to use as a shell and build the studio inside of it. Or is that sacrificing some advantages of a ground-up build that I'm not aware of?

I'm comfortable with hanging drywall, putting in insulation, painting, and that kind of stuff. I'm just not sure I trust myself with building something from scratch that has any real structural integrity. So I'm thinking maybe I could hire a contractor to frame the interior for me--either inside a shed, or an exterior structure they also build--and do the rest myself? And then, obviously, hire an electrician to get power, lighting, and a split unit AC installed. Does anybody know of any contractors in the LA area that would be willing to do part of a job like that?

I'm also wondering about permitting; I know the space I'm talking about is bigger than the 120 sq ft max the city allows without a permit, but it's pretty common for people to build unpermitted guest houses in this town. Do I really need one, and if so, will that have an effect on my budget/time frame?

The big, all-encompassing question I guess I have is, is there a way for me to do this for $20k or less, and if so, what is it?

Actually, one other option I could go with is a Studio Shed (https://www.studio-shed.com). I'd still have to add a wall inside if I want the iso-booth, but that's always something I could do at a later date. I'm just pretty sure the 45 STC value their acoustic package comes with wouldn't cut it (see https://goo.gl/qu6P0J).

Did I say too much? Not enough? I thought I followed the instructions on posting requirements, but if I did something wrong, I'll revise the post. Any assistance I could get on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hi there "kylemccarley", and Welcome!

Did I say too much? Not enough? I thought I followed the instructions on posting requirements, but if I did something wrong, I'll revise the post. Any assistance I could get on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

It's not a problem with you! Not at all. You did everything right. It's just a matter of overworked moderators on the forum! I have a list of about two dozen posts that I need to reply to, and sometimes it take a while to get through them...

I talked to a consultant about what I'm hoping to achieve, and he gave me the impression that if I hire a contractor to do the job, I can expect to spend about $80k all together. I was hoping for something more in the $20k ballpark, so I'm coming here to see if I can bounce ideas off more knowledgeable folks to get it to a budget that's more within my reach.

How big did you envision it? You mentioned "roughly 20' by 13' space", which is roughly 260 ft2. I've designed a few ground-up studios for customers in California, and they normally work out at around US$ 100 - 150 per square foot, so I'd guesstimate that your place will be somewhere in the ballpark of 25k to 40k. Not sure why a contractor would quote you so high, unless you have unusual needs.

I'm hoping to do a large control room and a small iso-booth,

In 260 ft2? Tight, but do-able.

ideally, I'd like to be able to switch the two in a pinch if I ever do a group recording session and need the larger space for the actors.

That would be tough! The acoustic needs for control rooms and iso booths are very different. You can track in a control room, of course: not a problem. But mixing in a tracking room would be unpleasant and unproductive...

Isolation is the main factor, as I live about 5 minutes away from Bob Hope Airport, and those 747s are loud when they take off.

Ok, so you do have special requirements: I'm starting to see why the contractor mentioned such a high number.

Acoustics aren't much of a concern;

You want a control room: acoustics is automatically a concern. Even if you are only doing VO work, you still need neutral acoustics in the CR, and the iso booth needs to have usable acoustics for VO work. I'm assuming you are talking about an ADR type process?

I'm early in planning stages, obviously, but I know that "room-within-a-room" is the best way to approach isolation.

Correct. Especially for your needs.

I'm wondering if the best way to achieve what I'm going for without breaking the bank isn't to just order a Tuff Shed to use as a shell and build the studio inside of it. Or is that sacrificing some advantages of a ground-up build that I'm not aware of?

Yes, it would be sacrificing something: the very high level of isolation that you need. Dialog is quiet. 747's are loud: The two don't go together very well! You need very high levels of isolation, and a thin, light-weight shed is not going to do the job you need done.

So I'm thinking maybe I could hire a contractor to frame the interior for me--either inside a shed, or an exterior structure they also build--and do the rest myself?

Framing is actually not as hard as it looks. You could probably do a lot of that yourself, to reduce costs. The issue isn't so much the way you put it together (although that's important!): The issue is the design: As long as it is designed correctly, structurally, and built according to the design, then you are OK.

And then, obviously, hire an electrician to get power, lighting, and a split unit AC installed.

... and the ventilation system, too. You can't have a studio without that! Mini-splits do heating and cooling, but they don't do ventilation. You do need to breathe fresh air in there, and get rid of the stale air, so you do also need ventilation, and that's actually a large part of studio design: the ventilation system is basically huge holes in the wall that essentially trash your isolation completely. That has to be dealt with by building "silencer boxes" at the points where the air ducts pass through the leaves of the wall. The silencer boxes retain the isolation while still allowing air to flow, much like the muffler on your car allows the exhaust gasses out but stops the sound getting through.

I'm also wondering about permitting; I know the space I'm talking about is bigger than the 120 sq ft max the city allows without a permit, but it's pretty common for people to build unpermitted guest houses in this town. Do I really need one,

Here's your answer:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=4442

The big, all-encompassing question I guess I have is, is there a way for me to do this for $20k or less, and if so, what is it?

High isolation, CR + booth in California? I would not count on it. Nope. Sorry to not have good news for you, but I'd estimate that you'll need to increase your budget by at least 50%.

I'm just pretty sure the 45 STC value their acoustic package comes with wouldn't cut it

STC is no use for evaluating studio isolation. It was never designed for that. The STC system is designed for typical home and office sounds. It does not consider the bottom two and a half octaves of the audible spectrum, nor does it consider the top two and a half octaves. It only takes into account a small range in the middle, which is nowhere near what a studio needs. Forget trying to evaluate studio isolation using STC numbers.

- Stuart -

Thanks, Stuart. Sounds like I ought to start by hiring somebody to do proper design for me, then. At that point I can evaluate how much of it I can feasibly tackle myself and how much I need to hire a pro for, then get bids to figure out the exact budget and start saving. Anyone you can refer me to?

Sounds like I ought to start by hiring somebody to do proper design for me,

That's a very smart move. You could learn how to do it yourself, but realistically it would take you about six months to a year to learn all you need to now and get the design done.

Anyone you can refer me to?

Well, there's me!! Actually, I'm fully booked for at least the next three weeks. Several projects on the go at the same time.

I'd suggest that you contact John himself. Send him a PM, and ask him if he'd be able to quote for designing your place. John is the best in the business, as far as I'm concerned. You wont find anyone who can design your place better than he can.

If he isn't able to help you (he's a busy man!), then let me know by PM, and we'll see what we can figure out.



- Stuart -