John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey guys - three questions for you:

1) I'm just about to begin my studio construction work, but I still haven't bought the cables I need. I have gotten the recommendation to use AES/EBU cable for microphones, and I just wanted your opinion on that.

2) I'm considering getting an XLR patchbay for flexibility of routing the different mic inputs to different outboard preamps or inputs to my console. Are there any problems with feeding phantom power through an XLR patch bay?

4) I could skip the patch bay, and make a basic setup where I route the mic lines directly to the inputs of my preamps. Then, if I wanted to change anything, I could get off my butt and repatch on the back of my gear. Do you think the audio degradation of routing the mic lines through a patch bay is worth the improved ergonomics and flexibility?

3) I can get a good price on Klotz cable - what are you guys' opinions on their microphone cables?

Thanks!
/Henrik

That's odd - I got logged out when posting, making this a "guest" post. Which also means I can't correct the fact that there are four questions, not three, and that the order got a little messed up...

/H

The digital cable I am planning on is this one: http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct. ... 160&off=17

You will ready some posts about issuse with phantom power and patchbays, but look at it thisway, even large consoles like SSL, Neve, API and Amek run phantom thru the patchbays. As long as you pay attention to what you are doing and remember to turn it off when you are done (even if leaving the mics set up for another session) you will be ok.

The AES/EBU cable is used for digital. It is also rated at 110 ohm which is a different impeadance than regular mic cable for analog signals.

Are you running a multi-pair snake or are you looking for regular mic cables?

2) I'm considering getting an XLR patchbay for flexibility of routing the different mic inputs to different outboard preamps or inputs to my console. Are there any problems with feeding phantom power through an XLR patch bay?

I would suggest using a TT patchbay. Here's a link to some good info... http://www.adc.com/Library/Literature/1180270_2.pdf

3) I can get a good price on Klotz cable - what are you guys' opinions on their microphone cables?

I've never used it, so I can't comment. I usually use Mogami or Canare.

http://www.mogami.com/
http://www.canare.com/

Personally I like the Mogami for multi-pair snakes, but I like the Canare for mic cables.



Aaron

AES/EBU cable is used for digital. It is also rated at 110 ohm which is a different impeadance than regular mic cable for analog signals

But that make is better to longer cable runs and better sound transfers.

AES/EBU digital audio cable is low capacitance characteristics, it can result in high quality analog audio transmission in general especially for high frequency range.

MOGAMI FOREVER!!! I am using the Studio Gold cable and love how transparent they sound. I wish I could get them with custom connectors with my studio logo on them though.

But you are still back to the impedance issue and the cable un characteristically loading down the microphone and the pre-amp giveing it a strange sound (especially in your mids.)

Hmm...so Giles, you are saying that using AES/EBU-cable for mics may sound worse than plain mic cable?

Regarding patch bays, is there any quality difference between TT and regular 1/4" balanced tele? (Particularly when it comes to running 48V through it).

Cheers,
Henrik

Yes there is that possibility. Of course the only true measure is you and your ears in an A/B test.

So far as TT or 1/4" there is no quality difference in the connectors the issue comes down to the patch cables you use. Obviously the better constructed Patch Cable will give you better sound quality.

So much for a $1.00 patch cable. LOL

#1. Use AES cable for connecting 110 ohm AES signals; use high quality balanced inter-connect cable for mic lines and line level connections. (I use Mogami 2944 for all "back of house" wiring and Mogami 2549 for all exposed wiring. Their 3080 cable is a great AES cable)

#2. I think that XLR patchbays are one of the most under-utilized great ideas in pro audio. I've had at least one in every studio I've ever called home. And an XLR bay should handle 48v as well as any other format, and with less confusion. But personally, I would never run phantom through a patch bay or anywhere else. I power any mic requiring power from a nearby source. Tube mics have their own power supply locate within a few feet of the mic and I do the same thing with phantom powered mics - I place an outboard 48v unit out by the mic and never have to worry about 48v in my patchbays or elsewhere.

#4. I always run mic cables directly to the preamp, not to a patchbay. But the big studios have been running mics through patchbays for 50 years without the world coming to an end, so I wouldn't worry about it.

#3. Klotz cables? Their beer ain't bad, but I've never tried their cables. Once I wired a patch bay with Mogami cable, I could never switch back to other brands. Not saying it necessarily sounds better, its just so much easier to handle and work with.

And regarding your later post about TT and 1/4 bays...... If you have abandoned the XLR patch bay idea (try it, I think they are GREAT), I would strongly recommend going with an old school 1/4" longframe format. If you are not familiar with the different types of connectors, a longframe jack looks just like a TT jack only larger. If you compare it to the more common 1/4" jack (like those found on guitar cables), the longframe jack is rounded as opposed to the 1/4" jack with it's poiny end and striaght edges. It comes down to durability; the guitar store 1/4 bays will usually work when you get them home, but a year later you might be cursing at the damn thing. The longframe format was designed by the phone company with the goal of it working pretty much FOREVER. Although I hate the TT format because I feel it is too small for human hands to work with (just try soldering one!), the one good thing that they have going for them is that they copied the longframe format, only on a smaller scale.

Well then, let me go rip all my preamps out of my control room racks and saftey and place them in various locations through out my studio where I don't have immediate access or wandering hands can play. I like the idea of having a big 10 space rack panel with 96 XLR patch points in my cramped rack instead of the 1 space panel I have now, that would loolk mighty impressive to clients! I think I'll head out to Guitar Center and buy 15 Behringer phantom power units for my 3 rooms since I shouldn't use the one in my Neve 1073 or UA 2-610 thru a patchbay. Thanks for the help!

You'll be fine w/ TT bays. No need to relocate or move equipment. I would suggest not turning on phantom on the pre though until you've made the patch.

As far as an XLR patchbay in a control room...the only time I see XLR's is for additional mic inputs in the control room. I don't believe I've seen an XLR patchbay in all the world class studio's I've been in or seen.
They're always TT's or 1/4" on older API consoles

The old school 1/4" long frame (also used in the military) are commonly all brass connectors. That's one of the downsides. I haven't seen any nickle plated ones.

And speaking of nickle and brass...go with the nickle. Brass will tarnish both the cables and patchbays. After a couple years, they get scratchy and sound terrible.

Aaron

Dude, just being sarcastic!

I know about applying phantom after hooking everything up. I've been doing this for 15 years. My first real booboo was a vintage Neve and a ribbon mic, OUCH!!! Toast anyone?

Dude, just being sarcastic!

I know. I was posting for everyone else though.

Ouch on the ribbon mic!

That had to hurt...

OK, thanks all for your help, and no need for anybody going into a pissing match over this.

Lex - is your reason for not wanting to put 48V through a patch bay that you might make a mistake one day (like with the ribbon )?

I like the idea of a separate phantom powering unit, and then never running 48V through your patch. Any recommendations of such units, or anything to steer away from?

Cheers,
Henrik

Pissers Unite

23 years over my way

But anyway....

There are a ton of companies who offer Phanton Power Supply Solutions

Hear are a couple fo dealers for you to check out.

http://www.zzounds.com/cat--Phantom-Pow ... lies--2829

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-b ... plate=mics