John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey, first post here, long time lurker I come seeking advice. I had some rehearsal studios built around 9 months ago, and left a room at the back as a store room, leaving the possibility of converting it into a third rehearsal space or a control room depending on my business demands. This means that I am currently based in the reception area and its where i do my producing, typically after having recorded inside the room with the band (as it turns out, recording demand is higher than i had expected). So firstly, I need to take all my gear into the "live room", the larger of the 2 rehearsal rooms at 18m2 and then have the musician or band stop regularly so I can check how its sounding on some headphones. This turns out to be hard especially when recording a full band as someone usually plays or talks a lot while I'm trying to listen to the recorded sounds.

Once tracking is done, I move all my gear back to the reception and then start mixing it. My monitors are to the right of me so i tend to reference the mix in headphones a lot. I have a big window and door made of glass. I have an opening to the landing area for the 2 bathrooms. I have the opening to the hallway, with a door which i could either close or open. Its really not ideal and is also a small space.

I have attached a floorplan with some markings I added. As you can see there is a pillar in the room too. GREAT! hahah. Its ok as i need some storage space anyway. Apart from the marked gobos (to separate the space behind the pillars for storage area - the gobos will be on wheels) and corner traps(probably also on wheels) i will also be adding ceiling/wall join traps wherever possible, and the suspended ceiling will have absorbent rockwool panels. these have worked very nicely in the live room and makes the 2.85m height seem a lot higher. I wont use these all over the ceiling as that would give equal absorption all over, using them more sparingly will hopefully in someways mimic the acoustical response of a ceiling with irregular heights.. I have the xlr snakes to take the signal from live room to control room, and will be installing them soon. They will go up into the ceiling, over the hallway ceiling, into control room and come down into the room behind one of the corner traps. The im going to seal the gaps and stuff the cavities above the suspended ceilings with some fibreglass insulation. Ventilation already installed in the control future room.

My main concern is with how to lay the future control room out. I am currently leaning towards monitor position 1, as it is usually recommended to get them facing the longer way of the room. Thats cool, but then i have an angled concrete wall behind them. Am i right in thinking that using monitor position 2, although against room said layout guideline, would be better? I just assume: The wall behind them would a) not be angled and therefore give a better stereo image, and b) the plasterboard/rockwool wall might work as a big bass trap behind the monitors. I say might, because that is one of the questions I have. The measurements in the picture are in metres, and the height is around 2.85m in all rooms.

The idea is to use the current reception area as a waiting room, with a vending machine and some seating etc. (waiting room for music lesson students, rehearsing bands etc) Sat here at the front i tend to get a fair bit of noise from the road as the front end is not soundproofed a whole lot. Neither is the back end (future control room) but as its not a live room i dont think i need to sound proof it any further, not for the neighbours anyway. Saying that, I get more noise spill from the live room (rehearsal room 2) at the back than i do at the reception room. my theory is that this is because of the door of the live room (being the weak point in the sound proofing) is closer to the back room than the front room.

I suppose it boils down to: more symmetrical layout (kinda) vs less symmetry but plasterboard and rockwool behind the speakers instead of an angled concrete wall. as id really rather not have to construct anything new at this point (other than home made bass traps )

I could cover the wall behind monitor position 1 with some mid to high freq absorbent but i dont think this will be enough as this will not be adequate for bass. is this correct? i think i would have to build a stud wall to even out the wall, and fill it with rockwool. this would act as a bass trap but to make the wall even, this bass trap would have to be an irregular shape itself, which i imagine would cause its own set of problems...? To not undo the work that has been done, i wont be cutting a hole through for a window to the live room. i have a camera security system so i can see them, i was thinking of sticking a tablet to a wall in the live room and skype it from the control room probably (actually...if anyone has any other suggestions on visual communication other than windows im all ears). I also briefly fantasized about the idea of sticking a vocal booth in, which at the same time could be designed to make the room more symmetrical. However on investigation, i have read that many studios track vocals in the control room, so control room takes priority over vocal booth, plus i dont have that much space to work with here. putting in an iso booth with take away space from what will already be a small control room. Id really appreciate any swift advice on this, Im looking to get cracking on this ASAP.

I have some links you can check out of the build and some tracks we have recorded here:

Build Montage:
https://youtu.be/6ybnIk3h4Qg

Song we recorded live a few weeks ago
https://youtu.be/st55TgZiGE8


Tracks recorded semi live (vocals and solos tracked after guitars/bass/drums)
https://soundcloud.com/octopus-music-ba ... o-sunshine
https://soundcloud.com/octopus-music-ba ... s_de_vivir


my bandcamp (a mix of stuff ive made over the years in different places. Looking forward to settling into a decent room).
https://amardevsharma.bandcamp.com/


Summary:
weird shaped room with a pillar (gobos to make the pillar form part of the "wall" line, leaving the space behind for storage), height 2m85cm

monitor position 1 vs monitor position 2?

is there an easy way for people in the live room to see me without cutting a window through?

and just for fun, what is an acceptable amount of dbs of live room noise to hear in the control room? i cant seem to find much talk about this. Granted its a step up from tracking in the same room, but im getting around 65db peaks when theres a full band playing in there at high volumes (free phone app...not sure how accurate)

thanks in advance

(i have now attached a blank floorplan too in case anyone wants to fiddle with it)

Bienvenido "OverdriveStudios"! Mucho gusto!

This turns out to be hard especially when recording a full band as someone usually plays or talks a lot while I'm trying to listen to the recorded sounds.

Story of my life! I think there is something in the DNA of all musicians that prevents them from understanding the concept of "Please don't make any noise", and actively forces their fingers to work their instruments subconsciously at all times when they are holding it. Must be some type of genetic mutation, I think... I hate soundchecks for the same reason: I tell them over the talk-back: "I need just the electric guitar by itself please!", I get 2 seconds of silence, then the whole band strikes up a once, each playing their own song independently, each one of them five times louder than the guitarist! ... Sigh!

I have attached a floorplan with some markings I added.

I see markings, but I don't fully understand what they mean, or which room you are talking about... I guess the blue and orange square are the two speaker locations you are talking about? Neither of those will work, for a very simple, major, and critical reason: symmetry. You absolutely must place your mix position in a location that is symmetrical around you: the two side walls must be at equal distances from your head, the front wall must be straight in front of you and not angled, your speakers must be the same distance from the front wall, and they must also be the same distance from the side walls, your mix position must be on the room center-line. Etc. If you do not set up like that, your ears will be hearing different things, different timing, different balance, different delays, different phase, etc., and your mixes will not translate well. Symmetry is the most basic requirement for a control room. Without that, you don't have a control room! The room MUST be symmetrical for at least the front half: the rear half (behind the mix position) is not so critical.

part from the marked gobos (to separate the space behind the pillars for storage area - the gobos will be on wheels) and corner traps(probably also on wheels)

That's not a realistic scenario for a control room. The acoustics must be permanently fixed and unchangeable, and must meet the specs laid out in the AES, ITU, EBU and other publications for control rooms. It just is not realist to have a control room where large acoustic objects could be in very different locations or orientations each time you work there. You'd never know if your mix was correct or not! It would sound different each time you played it, since the room would sound different. You'd be forever correcting EQ and dynamic problems that don't really exist, and would not be the same next time you tried...

I wont use these all over the ceiling as that would give equal absorption all over,

There's nothing wrong with having a fully absorbent ceiling: Many of the studios I design have that feature. It works very well in small rooms, especially ones with low ceilings. The trick is to balance the total absorption in the room so that you get the correct decay times in each 1/3rd octave band, as defined by the specs. If the floor is hard and the ceiling is soft, that makes it a lot easier to distribute the remaining absorption intelligently around the walls.... You only need to worry about four surfaces in 2 dimensions, instead of 6 surfaces in 3 dimensions...

in someways mimic the acoustical response of a ceiling with irregular heights..

Why would you want irregular heights in your CR ceiling? You might want an angled cloud at the front (for other reasons), but there's no need at all for irregular variations in ceiling height.

The im going to seal the gaps and stuff the cavities above the suspended ceilings

Suspended ceilings? You have drop ceilings in there? You will have to get rid of those: they have no place at all in a control room. You also would not be able to hang heavy treatment from that.

I am currently leaning towards monitor position 1, as it is usually recommended to get them facing the longer way of the room. Thats cool, but then i have an angled concrete wall behind them. Am i right in thinking that using monitor position 2,

As I mentioned above, neither of those is viable. You will need to find a position where you have a symmetrical set of surfaces in front of you. It looks to me like there is no such place in that room, so you will have to build a "room-in-a-room" to create it.

I suppose it boils down to: more symmetrical layout (kinda) vs less symmetry

Neither of those is symmetrical. Both are no use.

i think i would have to build a stud wall to even out the wall, and fill it with rockwool.

Yes. And at least one other wall, in order to get a rectangular room (or at least a rectangular front section).

this would act as a bass trap

Not if you build it correctly! If it acts as a bass trap then you built it wrong... The entire purpose of building that wall is to create ACOUSTIC symmetry, with all parts of the walls around you reflecting and absorbing equally.

this bass trap would have to be an irregular shape itself, which i imagine would cause its own set of problems...

Not really...

Summary:

weird shaped room with a pillar (gobos to make the pillar form part of the "wall" line, leaving the space behind for storage)

Not a viable option. Gobos no not act like walls anyway.

monitor position 1 vs monitor position 2?

Neither. Both are far too problematic to work.

is there an easy way for people in the live room to see me without cutting a window through?

CCTV camera on you, flat screen in the LR.

and just for fun, what is an acceptable amount of dbs of live room noise to hear in the control room? i cant seem to find much talk about this.

That's an individual, personal decision, but for the rooms I design I always aim for at least 60 B of isolation. So 100 dB in the LR comes through as about 40 dB in the CR, which is acceptable.... for me! Others might want more. The best isolated studio in the world (Galaxy Studios, in Belgium) get an amazing 100 dB isolation between their rooms. That means that no sound at all gets through from the typical rock band, even a very loud one. Only things like gun shots make it through, and even then it is very quiet.

im getting around 65db peaks when theres a full band playing in there at high volumes

So you are getting around 40 dB of isolation, which is roughly what a typical house wall gives you. Not what a studio wall should give. There's something wrong with your isolation.

free phone app...not sure how accurate)

Not very! Get a proper sound level meter. They cost around US$ 100 for a decent one.


- Stuart -

Stuart, thanks so much for the detailed reply!

I agree with what you are saying, the space itself is not ideal. Building a room within it is the best way to go for sure. I really wasnt expecting to want or need a proper control room here so soon, therefore the isolation was directed more towards the ceilings to avoid pestering flats above. I'm pretty sure my free phone app was no accurate anyway. I didn't have the tests done in the store room, we had db levels tested between the 2 rooms and between room 2 and the flat above, 85db isolation (frequency average). I have seen another property that would be perfect for a proper studio, no neighbours, cheap, 70m2 total size, high ceiling, rectangular space, literally next to where i live and its dirt cheap, would need a lot of work though! Also I'm just not in a position to do that right now I think I'll just keep it where its at in the reception area and get myself the best pair of studio headphones i can find to reference my mixes on, as the reception space is so messed up for acoustics im not even going to entertain the idea of figuring out how i could treat it.

Just out of curiosity, will a small but symmetrical room always be better than a larger asymmetrical room?

Also I have attached a picture to try to explain what i meant about the bass trap being an irregular shape. If you take a look, one corner of that wall will still be the concrete wall..even if i extend the wall further to the left to cover the whole of that angled wall on the right plus the flat bit that pokes out in the top right corner, the depths of said trapping would be different at every point along the wall....and then also facing said wall, to the right id have bass trap and to the left id have concrete. so my assumption is it wouldnt work well either? Even if i were to put broadband absorption to mirror the bass trap? The other idea I had was to use that space marked for a bass trap as a vocal booth. That way Im gaining a useful space instead of just losing space in an already small room. Is this feasible?

Ok how about i dont make is symmetrical at that end, but I use the other side of the room? I have also marked this, the pillar is an obvious pain in the butt, is there any workaround for that? cover in absorption? this is all just out of curiosity now, thinking of the future the other place would be great but if i can make it work here it will cost a hell of a lot less!

So can you recommend any sweet headphones haha?

Thanks again for your help

Amar

Just out of curiosity, will a small but symmetrical room always be better than a larger asymmetrical room?

It's really hard hard to give a general answer to that question! It really depends on the actual situation: A really small room will always be bad, regardless of how it is shaped, and a very large room that is asymmetrical might be OK, if it is big enough. EBU/ITU/AES specs recommend a minimum floor area of about 20m2, and a maximum of about 60m2 (actual specs vary a bit), but it is possible to do a good CR in rooms that are smaller than 20m2, or larger than 60m3, provided that they are very carefully designed and built. John has designed control rooms inside a shipping container! TV broadcast vans fit usable control rooms inside a truck body. So it is possible to go small and be OK, but VERY small will never work. Big and asymmetrical might be possible too, but once again, it depends on how it is asymmetrical, as well as the total size. For example, if all the walls are curved in different ways, at large angles, then it' just ain't gonna work at all. If it is just slightly asymmetrical at one end, and all of that can be at the back of the room, then no problem.

So there's no easy answer to that question, unfortunately! Like many things in acoustics, the best one can say for a generalized question is: "It depends"...

Also I have attached a picture to try to explain what i meant about the bass trap being an irregular shape.

If you build a good wall along the black lines that you added there, then that would make the room very usable! But that could not be a bass trap. The wall would separate that area from the room acoustically. It would be an isolation wall. As you said, you could use the area behind it as a vocal booth or iso booth, or maybe just for storage. It would be a strange shape for a vocal booth, but it could work.

Here's another way you could do it that makes a lot of sense:
That makes the space very usable as a vocal booth (they do not need to be symmetric: in fact, non-symmetric is better, in some ways). It is nice and large, and you could easily put sliding glass doors in the wall between the two rooms, or just a plain swing door with some glass in it, to give you good sight lines in there. That would be a really good option. You would have to determine the best location for that divider wall by using room mode calculations, but it would be roughly where I showed it.

I have also marked this, the pillar is an obvious pain in the butt, is there any workaround for that? cover in absorption?

With that pillar behind you (as I show above), yes, that would work. I would put some thick wood panels on there to create a wedge shape on the side facing your back (like the bow of a ship), with absorption over that, and you'd have a workable solution.

That would be a very usable option. It would give you a symmetric CR with about 20 m2 of floor space, and also a nice vocal booth with sight lines and easy access. i would really consider doing this: it makes sense.

So can you recommend any sweet headphones haha?

I use Sony MDR-7506, because they are reasonably accurate and not too expensive, but as you already know, mixing on headphones isn't easy and doesn't give you a good sense of the music. In a proper studio, both ears hear both speakers with the correct balance, levels, decay and ambiance, so you are getting a very neutral and natural sound: No headphones can do that, no matter how good they are. And I'm really glad about that, otherwise I'd be out of a job as a studio designer!!!!

Anyway, if I were you, I would seriously consider doing something like I show above. If it is designed well, it would be a very nice CR.

- Stuart -

Stuart, thanks again for the input. I have been weighing up the options and for the time being any real construction/isolation is not going to be doable for a while. Now i have been doing the research into headphones and in general it is said that they are best for checking mixes but not for mixing itself. Also mentioned is that open backs work better than closed backs, less frequency build up and better sound staging. The Sonys seem good but they are closed back right? Im looking at Akg k240mkii, beyerdynamic dt990 250ohm version. However after more research im not sure heaphones are such a great idea either. A quote from one of the many places i read up on in the deep of the net is "if mixing on headphones was actuslly feasible, we would all be using headphones in untreated rooms"

This single phrase along with your input makes me now question whether it is wiser to invest the headphone cash elsewhere (am now thinking mastering plugin like hofa or ozone) and just make sure im referencing my mixes as much as possible across multiple devices and my exisiting headphones (sennheiser hd215 and superlux 661, also usually cross check on laptop speakers, iphone earbuds, my phone itself, another bluetooth speaker and in the car. In fact in my headphone research i have discovered some plugins like redline 112db, tb isone and beyerdynamic virtual studio, the beyer plugin is free and i have just used it to mix some drums for our next youtube video, i have to say i feel my mixes will improve greatly from using this to add reference possibilities without having to export the track and/or burn a cd. Still tempted by some nice headphones though. I dont have any issues with late night volumes from my nearfields (tannoy reveal 501a) but due to the layout of my reception area im firstly not able to face my speakers when mixing. For checking a mix i can move into a more appropriate position but the room is obviously still not ideal... I have downloaded to room eq wizard and plan to find out more about how the space affects the speakers so i can take it into account when producing.

So, decent headphones vs side on monitors in a possibly really bad room?

I am also trying to keep my listening levels around 85db, and check the mixes at lower volumes too. Does lower volume mean i will also hear less of the room?

Would love to hear your thoughts on this

So, decent headphones vs side on monitors in a possibly really bad room?

I would do both! Have decent headphones for listening to the subtle details, but do most of the mixing on the speakers. However I would add treatment to the room, for sure! Make it "not so bad" at least, even if you can't get it "good"...

- Stuart -

Hi Stuart!

I've been a bit busy lately but have been getting more and more inquiries for recording.... I must be doing something right hehe.... i sort of treated the reception area a while ago, ive got some dense material in some corners, a bit of absorbent near the speakers for first reflections (although its really tricky to treat such an awkward space i did do some). Also added a couple of absorbent ceiling tiles in the centre ish of the ceiling. Its all good though as i got myself some beyer dt990s and have upped my referencing game a load....i check on them, my sennheiser hd250s, some cheapo superlux headphones, apple ear buds, i have a little bluetooth speaker, i check in my car and at home on a 2.1 system, all the while cross referencing to commercial tracks. still getting used to how all this equipment sounds but its has proven critical to me since i started doing this. in fact the 2.1 logitech system at home is probably the most revealing. if anything is overly compressed or too bassy i can tell on those speakers better than anywhere else....i can also switch to the sub only to make sure my lower frequencies are all good. so hopefully my next mixes are going to be much much better.... but as you know it all starts with recording a good source sound...also something i am working on and improving over time

nonetheless.... i have been thinking about it very seriously and am going to go ahead with the control room. it may not be my final studio but it needs to be done, i feel like i cant charge what i would consider a fair amount for recording as its not reallllly a recording studio as such, and im sure some of the potential clients who have come in to ask about prices tend to not want to record here regardless of the good price, because they dont see a control room and therefore any other studio is automatically "better". i am also starting a short beginners recording and production course, which again i am offering at a lower price than it should be due to the fact that i currently dont have a proper control room.

i am uploading a rough idea of what i have in mind. is that what you meant with the hull shaped absorber on the pillar?

btw sadly those dimensions are not correct. the room would end up being something more like:

5.7-6m length, 2.60m width. not very wide i know. that doesnt give me 20m2 , we are talking more like 15m2. i popped the dimensions into a room mode calculator. the best combo i got was with 5.7 x 2.6 but it will need 3.5m ceiling height...not a problem here but i guess ideally instead of 5.7 x 2.6 (width) x 3.5 if i could flip the room on its side and have 5.7 x 3.5 (width) x 2.6 (height) it would be much more usable. i will have to make do with a smaller space.

my main main main question is:

given that the existing walls to the live room/rooms are already double leaf, will i mess things up by adding a third? the wall a the top of the screen is single leaf so not as worried about that side, its just i read triple leaf can end up causing some resonance issues....

Hey again

im also sort of thinking.....as this isnt going to be my final studio place as its a touch too small, maybe i can make the back room work as it is, regardless of its symmetry? probably to be quite honest, having the speakers facing me will be an upgrade to my current setup :s would it not be better to invest less here if it doesnt meet the minimum 20m2 size? i have seen so many control rooms that are not symmetrical. I have seen and been in numerous high end studios that do not have symmetry in the control room, and in many cases the desk is so large that setting up lengthways along the room is not possible, so they put the desk along the longer wall, giving the sound less distance before it hits the wall behind them.

does it really matter so much when so many high end studios (maybe they arent as high end as they claim to be) dont seem to follow the conventional wisdoms regarding symmetry and setup in a control room?

perhaps i could invest a fraction of the cost in treating the space to make it useable and save myself some hassle and money? isnt another part of the conventional wisdom "learn what your equipment and room sounds like by referencing as much as possible"?

here is a live track i mixed in my completely unsuitable currently reception/control room. i referenced to a track the same band had recorded in a high end all analog studio and honestly the sound was not too far off.... it takes a bit longer than in a more accurate space i suppose, it would just be nice to have the speakers facing me. think im causing an imbalance in my hearing as the speakers are to my right. i often swing around to hear them front but still.
https://youtu.be/W-rWo3jn8Iw
cheers again

maybe i can make the back room work as it is, regardless of its symmetry?

As long as you don't ever want to do good stereo mixes, that would work...

If you only want to do mono mixes, that would be fine...

i have seen so many control rooms that are not symmetrical.

Ummmm... then they were not control rooms. A control room that is not acoustically symmetrical, is no use at all.

I have seen and been in numerous high end studios that do not have symmetry in the control room,

Ummmm.... Really? To be honest, I have never seen a single "high end control room" that is not acoustically symmetrical. I have seen many that are not symmetrical, yes, but I would never use the term "high-end" to describe them! I have seen many "high end" control rooms too, but those have all been symmetrical...

Just because a room has lots of expensive gear in it, or is decorated beautifully, does not make it high end. What makes a room "high end" is that it meets or exceeds the ITU BS.1116-2 specification, or the EBU Tech-3276, or the AES TD-1001 specification. It would be impossible to meet any of those with a room that is not acoustically symmetrical, or too short, or too small.

in many cases the desk is so large that setting up lengthways along the room is not possible, so they put the desk along the longer wall, giving the sound less distance before it hits the wall behind them.

If the room is large enough, and treated suitably, that can work as well.

(maybe they arent as high end as they claim to be)

As I mentioned above, a room is only high end if it meets the specs for a critical listening room. If not, then it's just a pretty room with expensive equipment in it.

Take a look around John's professional design side of the forum ( http://www.johnlsayers.com/ ). Those are all high-end rooms. Do you seen any there that are non-symmetrical?

Here's a link to a really high-end control room, that also shows the acoustic response graphs. Those all meet or beat the specs I mentioned above for high end rooms: http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... =2&t=20471 Their website will be on-line shortly: I'll post an update to that as soon as it is live, since the entire story of how they achieved that is there. You might find it interesting.

a live track i mixed in my completely unsuitable currently reception/control room. i referenced to a track the same band had recorded in a high end all analog studio and honestly the sound was not too far off....

I'd bet that the "not far off" is the distance between a mediocre room and a good room. If you are satisfied with all of your mixes being "not far off" (which implies that they didn't actually get to the destination...), then that's OK, I guess!

Also, take a close look at my signature line (below)...

- Stuart -

hey!

thanks again for the reply

so much still to learn :s

i have decided on keeping costs as low as possible

the room is really a tricky one, and i dont have much dollar to spend. i can already see myself outgrowing this space so i am reluctant to invest more in actual walls.

treatment, however, i have no problem with, as long as i can pick it up and take it with me when i move on


my latest idea, although far from ideal or perfect, is to use some stage curtains, around 300g/m2 density, doubled up on itself to make 600g/m2 with some small airgap between them, more or less using the layout in the attached image here.
Could you confirm the treatment of the pillar? should i stack absorbent inside the frame like a superchunk corner trap? is it ok to just use this from just below monitor height to just above standing ear height or should i do the whole pillar?

the back wall, where spare amps and stuff will be. the bottom half is absorbent and i am planning on a some diffusors for the top half of the wall. i may build some of the bbc spec ones to scatter around the back half of the room but have found a nifty alternative

something like this from garden centre is super cheap
many variations and different sizes

guitars will in a stand behind the curtain to the right

some broadband absorbers where the curtain ends, mirrored as best as possible on the opposite side where the door is. absorbent ceiling panels to replace the current ones. floor is concrete slab but am above a garage so its probably best to build a floating floor, but really am not about to open that can of worms haha. i have some cheap thin carpet on there, was considering covering with laminate but again, cant justify the cost at this point.

i also would lovvvve for my studio to amaze people haha.... i often get compliments on how good the live room/rehearsal space sounds, usually from seasoned musicians who have been around the block a few times i am definitely not one for doing things in a half arsed manner, but for the time being i just need to be getting better results than my local competition which i am already close to doing. a bit crazy considering my current setup.

the place was never built with a control room in mind, it was initially a rehearsal complex, as i felt there was already too many studios around here. but lo and behold, im continuing to receive interest for recording projects! so i think ill go the super budget way for now, will still be better than most of the home studios around here, ill stick a few led lights around to make it look snazzy and they will love it haha

i know the curtains wont be the best solution

building a stud wall there probably isnt either though..right? from what i understand i do not want a resonant wall there behind my monitors....is that correct?

i am already looking into sub letting the complex as a whole to a bunch of bands so i can go build a proper one elsewhere haha. this is not an immediate idea and i am currently just teasing with that idea. if i can get enough bands interested it would certainly be more profitable than the way i have the place running at the moment. rehearsals by the hour (10 - 17€). most around here are used to paying around 200-250€ a month to timeshare a room with a couple of other bands. if i can get 3 bands per room (6 total) and charge them a bit more cos in all honestly jaws have dropped when people walk in here from a rehearsal aspect. on top of that they will have access to a diy control room which they can either use for storage or recording, the place is alarmed and air conditioned, etc etc, so i can probably get away with charging closer to 300 especially for the larger room (which still for me as a live room is not quite big enough, hence the desire to start a new project altogether! plus if i build a studio in a house, mortgage/rent will combine and ill save money!)

let me know what you think about the room treatment ideas and if there is anyway i can improve on it keeping in mind the tight tight budget. the curtains, diffusors, absorbent, and any other gear i get like 2nd set of monitors, perhaps a nice pre or compressor or daw controller etc i can take with me if and when i up and move on.....so i am very reluctant at this point to build any actual walls. to go full on with this place would not only need walls but would need a floor, and a new ceiling built in place of the suspended ceiling. considering the size of the room i dont think its worth going that far as its not really large enough and that damn pillar!!

cheers again