First Post - Basement Studio Finishing Materials and Design
Posted: Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:48 pm
Hello all,
This is my first post here. First off, want to thank the forum for existing and all it's contributors! A ton of useful detailed and useful information shared here has been extremely helpful in the planning and use of materials for my music basement workspace. After about a year and a half in the planning and I'm now I'm less than two weeks away from starting the basement finishing. I've got some specific questions I could use an experts' ear and thoughts on. I will try to be as detailed as possible in giving account to where I'm at at this point, (as well as how and why I got here) and where my 'open ends' still are that I could use some helpful advice on.
Space usage / purpose:
I'm a full-time musician (performer / teacher). The uses of this basement space will be four fold:
1. Recording / Mixing - most of this will be direct or close-microphone recording (vocals, guitar / bass DI, sequenced drums, keys), so it's more important for this space to act like a control room than have the dynamics of a tracking room. Acoustic accuracy, neutrality and a strong, uncolored stereo is really important, especially in the mixing chair.
2. As an environment for teaching. I teach guitar, voice, bass and uke to students young and old. Soundwise for this, I want it to function similar to a control room, so 1 and 2 are very similar, but this is where the aesthetics really come into play. I want it to be a warm welcoming environment that feels like another room of the house and not a 'basement' (what it is now). I also use recording as a teaching tool, so again emphasizing the tracking room mentality.
3. As a backdrop environment for a YouTube channel.This piece doesn't have as much to do with sound as aesthetics but there may be some live room recordings where the acoustics of the room come into play here, especially with dialogue . The channel will include blogs, teaching videos, acoustic / voice (maybe live) covers of songs and full-on arranged covers of songs (ex. heavy metal cover of Britney Spears, country version of something by LMFAO. Outside the box stuff).
4. Occasionally as a band rehearsal space (very infrequent) and even more infrequent (but possible) tracking space for drums.
Existing construction of the room:
(include room diagram)
Dimensions: 24 x 12 x 7. Foundation - poured concrete walls, concrete floor. Stairs at the back of the room. Ceiling is unfinished, wooden floor joists are 7 1/2 inches deep x 1 1/2 inches wide with 14 inches between. When we moved in, the room was wood paneled and wood-studded behind w no insulation. Ceilings were an older type acoustic tile. Had some water issues when we moved in down here and had those taken care of by one of the state's top waterproofing companies (new drainage system outside, foundation addressed / resealed, drain pipe installed inside, sump pump for ground water. All existing finishing that came with the house down here is getting ripped out.
I'm the kind of guy that wants to do something, once, right and never have to worry about it again when it comes to house remodeling. I also have a mold allergy and wanted to make sure that I cured the existing problem (there was mold growth behind the old wood panels and a continuous musty smell) and then took steps to prevent it from happening again. Had the waterproofing done, but you still have to control the inevitable humidity and water vapor that will come from climate variances and the concrete 'sponges' surrounding me on the walls and floor.
I'm going to be using a Sani-Dry dehumidification system for water vapor / humidity control and air purification. Air quality and smell is also very important for my students and parents and for my own children as well.
SaniDry dehumidifier (for anyone who cares):
http://www.basementsystems.com/basement ... nidry.html
This philosophy of a be-all end-all once and done led me straight though to prioritizing and selecting finishing materials for this basement that are highly moisture resistant, inorganic and durable (because this is the one and only time I want to do this). Mold won't grow on materials that don't hold moisture and it can't feed on. In other words, no wood, drywall or paint if it can be avoided, especially regarding the floor and walls. This eliminated a lot of the more 'conventional' finishing materials that folks typically use in home studio construction and led me into having to do a lot of research, especially on their sound properties. Given my sensitivity to mold, coupled with the fact that basement environments have different 'needs' and the fact that I needed this room to be just as 'cozy' (if not more so) as any other room in the house, figuring out this part of the equation became priority and had to be taken care of first.
OVERALL GOAL
To maximize use, layout and design of the existing basement space using the most durable inorganic finishing materials available to its' fullest potential along the four guidelines:
1. FUNCTION - Basement Specific: again, have to be inorganic (as much as possible) and not support mold growth whatsoever. Durable, and hopefully provide some energy efficiency to the house.
2. FUNCTION - Sound: With the dimensions of the room and inorganic materials prioritized, the finishing layout, construction, design and use of those materials within have to work FOR the sound physics of the specific space as much as possible, prioritizing my four usage goals. (treatment will be added after all the initial finishing work is done).
3. FORM - Aesthetics: I have to LOVE the way the space looks and feels. It's my office, my studio, my place of business (and relaxation at times), and where I will be spending a ton of my time. The aesthetics of the room represent me to my students / parents as well as am to the larger internet video world / YouTube channel. Needs to be comfortable, functional, inviting, universal.
4. FORM & FUNCTION - Future Proof: easily manipulatable. Not closed off, or a pain in the butt to run, for example wire through the wall or ceiling later if needs change. Walls durable enough for 8 year olds accidentally banging guitar cases into them and not dent. Ideally, flexible enough to hang anything anywhere (acoustic treatments, tv's, etc) without having to worry about where studs are.
The way that I look at the goals as a square. All sides need to be balanced, and as equal as possible in my case and as you guys can see, I really need to maximize every inch of this little space and what I do with it's blank canvas.
To where I'm at with this now:
I spent about two years looking at different finishing options (drywall, wood, carpeting, different tile, leaving the bare concrete etc..). I weighed using a company / contractor vs doing it myself. I spent a ton of time on this and other forums which have been helpful beyond words. In the end, I decided to use the Total Basement Finishing System. I'm not much of a DIY guy and can't afford to shut down my teaching biz as I work on things here and there and need it done pretty quickly and efficiently. They roll it out in about a week. The finishing materials they use are almost completely inorganic and help to satisfy a lot of the goals mentioned above simultaneously, and their system has a very comprehensive warranty.
Work is scheduled to begin in about a week 02/22/16 and I'm meeting with the contractor tomorrow (02/12/16) to nail in some of the last minute details and pricing things.
There's a lot of options in their system for finishing products, and my goal is to maximize a combination of their materials to get the best balance for the four goals (again, 1. basement specific, 2. materials used don't hurt the room for the usage goals as they relate to sound and even help where possible, 3. aesthetically pleasing, 4. future proof). The following is a breakdown of what and where materials will be used. Most materials I'm pretty locked in on, and others I'm not sure about. I'll provide the names of these products within their system and be as detailed as I can, as I'm sure it will come in handy when we address the sound questions and concerns. After balancing everything, here's where I'm at as of today.
Walls:
Insulation - I'm using their Basement to Beautiful wall panels. These are 2 1/2" thick EPS graphite-infused (drives R-value up a little) panels that will be mounted directly to the existing concrete which are prefabbed with electrical chases, (vertical chase every 32' and two horizontal chases at 16' & 64') and and 1/2' metal studs engineered to the front of the panel (don't go all way through so there's no thermal break). These are tongue and groove, much like some of the Owens or Dow stuff. Very rigid.
Finishing Panel - Their Everlast wall panel. It is a 1/2 inch cement board mounted to the EPS foam, covered with a washable off-white / beige 'slightly alligator-textured' vinyl finish. Harder than drywall, easy to clean, impossible to dent, anything can be mounted anywhere - rigid enough to mount a flat screen or bookshelf from, regardless of stud placement. Screw holes can be patched with putty.
Basement to Beautiful video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B24pDEMQ-lw
Floors:
Carpet Tiles - They call it ThermalDry. Tiles are polypropylene base with polyolefin carpet top. It's a modular, floating interlocking carpet tile floor matting system that creates a airspace between concrete floor and your feet with spacers on the bottom of the tile. The company also has regular tile and wood planking options which I considered and hit later..
Product Link:
http://www.mateflex.com/products/carpetflex
Ceiling:
Unfinished Ceiling Painted with black Dryfall w recessed lighting cans installed and painted to match ceiling.
Question 1:
The ceiling. I've done as much research and read through as much as I could find on forums regarding how to address one of my biggest acoustic issues. the low ceiling. The height from floor to unfinished ceiling is just shy of 7 feet. The living room to the house is right above where the mixing area will be and I have a 4 and 6 year old with heavy feet, so impact noise is a bit of a struggle, but something I can deal with based on how and what I'll be recording.
Taking everything into consideration, I need a solution for the ceiling that ideally balances:
A. Isolation - (impact noise from above and my noise from below at 3AM in the morning w late night mixing session),
B. Absorption - high / mid freq absorption, some bass trapping would be a bonus.
C. Doesn't look horrible
D. Doesn't sacrifice precious ceiling height and close off duct work and wiring.
As far as the impact noise, I plan to eventually add some thick carpet in the living room to soften footfalls but I realize that without adding mass, I can't do much on that end (except maybe training them to walk like little ninjas). Drywall for the ceiling is not an option. Closes off ductwork / electrical and absorbs very little, which is a high priority for my control room-esque environment. Keeping with one of my inorganic materials priorities, I want to try to avoid drywall as a whole. Contractor also does not offer it as an option so I'd have to do that myself.
Regarding TBF (Total Basement Finishing - company I'm using), they offer a drop ceiling option with 2 x 2 foot .55 NRC mineral fiber tiles from USG. From most of the folks in a similar situation on these forums, it seems the recommendation if there is a choice is to skip the drop ceiling entirely in favor of ceiling height. Also read that these tiles are great for office environments, but poor for high-frequency absorption. Aesthetically, I don't like the way the tiled ceilings look and it's even less favorable to me to lower the ceiling 4 inches. On the other hand I've seen mention of ceiling tiles topped w the fluffy or Roxul being a potential bass trapping option. I've run across another ceiling tile system mentioned in the forums (which I could probably install myself) called CeilingMAX that flush mounts the frame under the joists so you would only lose about 1/2 inch of ceiling height instead of 4 inches.
Regarding leaving the ceiling unfinished, I ran across a post from a fella named Craig John on the AVS forum who had a pre-existing drop ceiling and was looking for the best way to treat it. Ethan Winer suggested, " pull out the grid, which will give you more height, and pack the cavities between joists entirely with fluffy fiberglass. Then you can staple fabric to the joist bottoms, and add thin wood trim strips to cover the staples. This will be much more absorbent at high frequencies than any ceiling tile, and all that fiberglass will give a nice amount of bass trapping. It will also cost less than replacing one grid with another, and is probably less work too."
A member of the John Sayers' forum, beautyfish, posted, "With my seven foot ceilings, I would like to make the control room ceiling "disappear" as much as possible, both acoustically and visually" where he mentioned the insulation / cloth idea as well. I've seen this idea echoed by a few others.
Out of all my research, this solution seemed to me to be the most logical, balanced solution to construction / treatment of the ceiling. Mentioned this to my finishing guy with TBF I'll be working with and he said they could just paint the ceiling with black Dryfall. I like the aesthetic of the industrial look and the idea of the ceiling disappearing visually.
So…with the desired sonic goal of the space (control room dynamics -acoustic neutrality, pretty dry), and the 'givens' (aforementioned wall materials, carpet floor tiling,) am I on the right track with the solution of insulating the joists and then stapling fabric to the joists? If so, is it better to use Roxul (and specifically what kind), the pink fluffy, or rigid pink? Is there anything that I am missing? Also, regarding aesthetics, does anyone have a picture of what this looks like as a finished product?
Question 2:
My decision to use TBF's carpet tiles was based on several factors:
A. Again, inorganic. The polypropylene construction and carpet material they use have nothing for mold to feed on. Also if there is ever a plumbing leak, the floor doesn't have to be torn up.
B. Sound. Absorptive w high (and some mids?) frequencies.
C. Aesthetics. I like the color and it blends well with the wall tones. I can walk around barefoot if I wanted to.
D. Future proof. Modular system - you spill coffee and stain it, you can replace the specific tiles if they are beyond washing. If a tile is damaged, you replace that tile.
The company has three other options - wood plank vinyl flooring, vinyl tile (ceramic look), or vinyl subfloor system that carpet can be laid on top of. All options create the air pocket off the floor which provides the thermal break.
Video link to their flooring options:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-9XFxaLpw
From what I understand, a reflective floor is favorable in a tracking room, (esp if recording drums), but absorption as a mentality for a control room (esp a smaller one with low ceilings) is favorable. If I do the ceiling with the Roxul and fabric and use the carpet tile from the floors, there would be a good deal of absorption from that. From what I understand, you don't necessarily want any room TOTALLY dead. The wall vinyl coverings are hard, reflective and probably insignificantly diffusive because of their slightly raised varied alligatored texture. Given the materials they offer, am I on the right track with these carpet tiles for what I want to accomplish with the space?
Question 3:
From the basic diagram of the basement, you can see that it's pretty much a 12 x 24 rectangle. Early on with the design, I was considering dividing this space into a control room / tracking room, and getting the dimensions of the control room to closely match one of the ideal room ratios. This idea was also of value from a teaching perspective, as students (especially vocal) become embarrassed when the next lesson shows up because their mistakes can be heard and so on. Control room would function as the lesson room and tracking area as the waiting area. When I investigated the potential sound physics / consequences of the splitting idea however, (standing waves, room nodes, sound pressure), the general wisdom seemed to be, it may look / seem cool in your head, but better to have a big space the LF big waves.
Don't know anything about Brandon Drury, but I came across an article of his titled, 'Top 11 Recording Studio Construction Mistakes.' Regarding splitting the room, he posted, "I never understood why people don’t just take a chainsaw and cut their car in half to make two cars. Two cars is better than one. If you have tried this OR you have taken a perfectly good 10′x20′ room and cut it into two horrible sounding rooms, you know that neither approach works. There is a critical mass when it comes to cubic volume of a room. If you nail it, you avoid all kinds of acoustical problems."
Based my research of this area in relation to the propagation of sound in a small room, this advice seemed sound. The two room idea is cooler and costs more. I sacked it, but construction hasn't begun yet. The question is, based on my goals with the space, is this (one big room instead of two smaller ones) the right starting call pre-treatment to achieve the best acoustic neutrality and least pressure issues?
Question 4:
Doors. The entire basement is a square, divided by a poured concrete support wall that divides the square into two equal rectangles with 12' length - the finished room (the topic) and the unfinished laundry room. There is a bi-fold door that opens to the unfinished side where the washer, dryer, sump pump, dehumidifier, and furnace are. I would describe noise coming from this room at its' loudest point as moderate at most - not horribly loud or annoying at all. TBF uses standard hollow-core doors for their projects unless otherwise specified. There is another standard door at the top of the stairs that opens to the basement.
I am looking for one or two steps above the basic here. Best value for the dollar above standard hollow-core. Believe it or not, the hollow core will give me more than the flim-flam door that's there now. Any suggestions and or links you guys could give in this regard where a few extra bucks will go a much longer distance in terms of sound isolation?
Question 5:
Stairs and cavities above and below. Two potential issues here.
A. The stairs come down at the back of the basement to a 3'1/2" squared floor landing. Right now the area under the stairs is walled off with the old cheap wood paneling with a door that opens to the area under the stairs for storage. The mixing console is moving to the other side of the basement once it's finished. The plan as of now is to open the space totally up under the stairs into a 'Nevada' shaped area for storage under the stairs in which I could put my various guitar, bass and other cases / things. Storage areas in the basement, even with the unfinished side, are going end up being a premium. I know I will want to bass trap the corner of this area. I was also thinking (hoping) that the different sized guitar cases could double as a bit of diffusion and the finished Nevada cove under the stairs would give me a small amount of bass trapping. Regarding diffusion, another thought I had was maybe I don't want to open it all the way up - just use a taller door than what's there with the new finishing and use the other half of the wall with it's back to the stairs as flat surface for a diffusion panel as it will be the wall in the back of the room. Any thoughts on how to best maximize the potential of this area in all directions (bass trap, storage) would be much appreciated.
B. The stair area. Right now, my mixing desk is temporarily on the stair wall, and I've noticed that the stairwell area acts as as sort of resonant 'sound cave.' The slanted surface directly above the stairs is the underside of the stairs that go the second floor. I want to leave the general space at the bottom of the stairs how it is with the new finishing. Any great (hopefully inexpensive) DIY solutions come to mind for treatment of this area?
Question 6:
General treatment direction and order of priority. Once I get this area set up and all squared away with the finishing side of things, when it comes to treatment (traps, mid / high freq absorbers / diffusion) I want to make sure I'm on the right track. I haven't done as much homework on the treatment end yet and may start a separate thread after researching this area as much as I can, but so far this is what I've got, in order of priority.
Bass traps first priority - in the corners, larger gap from corner to trap the better. Bigger traps the better, especially for my environment.
Absorption on first reflection points - still not 100% on proper placement, and size of these absorbers.
Diffuser - on wall opposite mixing desk (mixing desk will be on wall opposite the stair wall)
My monitors are K-Roks. These should be on stands and make an equilateral triangle to my ears with tweeters (or bass drivers?) being eye level. Should be decoupled from stands if possible. I've seen a bunch of information on proper placement and distance of monitors but it seems there is a degree of subjective 'play' with this to get the best distance ratio for stereo image?
Question 7:
Drywall. I know I've said this whole thread I'm trying to stay away from it, but TBF also offers an option where they do the concrete / vinyl panel on the bottom, a chair rail and then use purple board (most moisture resistant drywall) on the top. From the finishing end, this looks really cool. Not as durable. Not as easy to repair.
I've read that drywall the ability to absorb a small amount of bass. The drywall in this case would be mounted directly to those Basement to Beautiful EPS foam panels, which are mounted directly to the concrete, so I don't know how much the purple board would resonate and/or absorb bass. From a sound perspective, would there be ANY advantage to using this 1/2 purple board, 1/2 cement / vinyl option? Again, no finishing done yet, no materials ordered as of today.
I think that about covers all the bases for now. Want to thank you guys for being a place where this information is available in public forum. Thank you in advance for any and all help / advice you can give on my project!
This is my first post here. First off, want to thank the forum for existing and all it's contributors! A ton of useful detailed and useful information shared here has been extremely helpful in the planning and use of materials for my music basement workspace. After about a year and a half in the planning and I'm now I'm less than two weeks away from starting the basement finishing. I've got some specific questions I could use an experts' ear and thoughts on. I will try to be as detailed as possible in giving account to where I'm at at this point, (as well as how and why I got here) and where my 'open ends' still are that I could use some helpful advice on.
Space usage / purpose:
I'm a full-time musician (performer / teacher). The uses of this basement space will be four fold:
1. Recording / Mixing - most of this will be direct or close-microphone recording (vocals, guitar / bass DI, sequenced drums, keys), so it's more important for this space to act like a control room than have the dynamics of a tracking room. Acoustic accuracy, neutrality and a strong, uncolored stereo is really important, especially in the mixing chair.
2. As an environment for teaching. I teach guitar, voice, bass and uke to students young and old. Soundwise for this, I want it to function similar to a control room, so 1 and 2 are very similar, but this is where the aesthetics really come into play. I want it to be a warm welcoming environment that feels like another room of the house and not a 'basement' (what it is now). I also use recording as a teaching tool, so again emphasizing the tracking room mentality.
3. As a backdrop environment for a YouTube channel.This piece doesn't have as much to do with sound as aesthetics but there may be some live room recordings where the acoustics of the room come into play here, especially with dialogue . The channel will include blogs, teaching videos, acoustic / voice (maybe live) covers of songs and full-on arranged covers of songs (ex. heavy metal cover of Britney Spears, country version of something by LMFAO. Outside the box stuff).
4. Occasionally as a band rehearsal space (very infrequent) and even more infrequent (but possible) tracking space for drums.
Existing construction of the room:
(include room diagram)
Dimensions: 24 x 12 x 7. Foundation - poured concrete walls, concrete floor. Stairs at the back of the room. Ceiling is unfinished, wooden floor joists are 7 1/2 inches deep x 1 1/2 inches wide with 14 inches between. When we moved in, the room was wood paneled and wood-studded behind w no insulation. Ceilings were an older type acoustic tile. Had some water issues when we moved in down here and had those taken care of by one of the state's top waterproofing companies (new drainage system outside, foundation addressed / resealed, drain pipe installed inside, sump pump for ground water. All existing finishing that came with the house down here is getting ripped out.
I'm the kind of guy that wants to do something, once, right and never have to worry about it again when it comes to house remodeling. I also have a mold allergy and wanted to make sure that I cured the existing problem (there was mold growth behind the old wood panels and a continuous musty smell) and then took steps to prevent it from happening again. Had the waterproofing done, but you still have to control the inevitable humidity and water vapor that will come from climate variances and the concrete 'sponges' surrounding me on the walls and floor.
I'm going to be using a Sani-Dry dehumidification system for water vapor / humidity control and air purification. Air quality and smell is also very important for my students and parents and for my own children as well.
SaniDry dehumidifier (for anyone who cares):
http://www.basementsystems.com/basement ... nidry.html
This philosophy of a be-all end-all once and done led me straight though to prioritizing and selecting finishing materials for this basement that are highly moisture resistant, inorganic and durable (because this is the one and only time I want to do this). Mold won't grow on materials that don't hold moisture and it can't feed on. In other words, no wood, drywall or paint if it can be avoided, especially regarding the floor and walls. This eliminated a lot of the more 'conventional' finishing materials that folks typically use in home studio construction and led me into having to do a lot of research, especially on their sound properties. Given my sensitivity to mold, coupled with the fact that basement environments have different 'needs' and the fact that I needed this room to be just as 'cozy' (if not more so) as any other room in the house, figuring out this part of the equation became priority and had to be taken care of first.
OVERALL GOAL
To maximize use, layout and design of the existing basement space using the most durable inorganic finishing materials available to its' fullest potential along the four guidelines:
1. FUNCTION - Basement Specific: again, have to be inorganic (as much as possible) and not support mold growth whatsoever. Durable, and hopefully provide some energy efficiency to the house.
2. FUNCTION - Sound: With the dimensions of the room and inorganic materials prioritized, the finishing layout, construction, design and use of those materials within have to work FOR the sound physics of the specific space as much as possible, prioritizing my four usage goals. (treatment will be added after all the initial finishing work is done).
3. FORM - Aesthetics: I have to LOVE the way the space looks and feels. It's my office, my studio, my place of business (and relaxation at times), and where I will be spending a ton of my time. The aesthetics of the room represent me to my students / parents as well as am to the larger internet video world / YouTube channel. Needs to be comfortable, functional, inviting, universal.
4. FORM & FUNCTION - Future Proof: easily manipulatable. Not closed off, or a pain in the butt to run, for example wire through the wall or ceiling later if needs change. Walls durable enough for 8 year olds accidentally banging guitar cases into them and not dent. Ideally, flexible enough to hang anything anywhere (acoustic treatments, tv's, etc) without having to worry about where studs are.
The way that I look at the goals as a square. All sides need to be balanced, and as equal as possible in my case and as you guys can see, I really need to maximize every inch of this little space and what I do with it's blank canvas.
To where I'm at with this now:
I spent about two years looking at different finishing options (drywall, wood, carpeting, different tile, leaving the bare concrete etc..). I weighed using a company / contractor vs doing it myself. I spent a ton of time on this and other forums which have been helpful beyond words. In the end, I decided to use the Total Basement Finishing System. I'm not much of a DIY guy and can't afford to shut down my teaching biz as I work on things here and there and need it done pretty quickly and efficiently. They roll it out in about a week. The finishing materials they use are almost completely inorganic and help to satisfy a lot of the goals mentioned above simultaneously, and their system has a very comprehensive warranty.
Work is scheduled to begin in about a week 02/22/16 and I'm meeting with the contractor tomorrow (02/12/16) to nail in some of the last minute details and pricing things.
There's a lot of options in their system for finishing products, and my goal is to maximize a combination of their materials to get the best balance for the four goals (again, 1. basement specific, 2. materials used don't hurt the room for the usage goals as they relate to sound and even help where possible, 3. aesthetically pleasing, 4. future proof). The following is a breakdown of what and where materials will be used. Most materials I'm pretty locked in on, and others I'm not sure about. I'll provide the names of these products within their system and be as detailed as I can, as I'm sure it will come in handy when we address the sound questions and concerns. After balancing everything, here's where I'm at as of today.
Walls:
Insulation - I'm using their Basement to Beautiful wall panels. These are 2 1/2" thick EPS graphite-infused (drives R-value up a little) panels that will be mounted directly to the existing concrete which are prefabbed with electrical chases, (vertical chase every 32' and two horizontal chases at 16' & 64') and and 1/2' metal studs engineered to the front of the panel (don't go all way through so there's no thermal break). These are tongue and groove, much like some of the Owens or Dow stuff. Very rigid.
Finishing Panel - Their Everlast wall panel. It is a 1/2 inch cement board mounted to the EPS foam, covered with a washable off-white / beige 'slightly alligator-textured' vinyl finish. Harder than drywall, easy to clean, impossible to dent, anything can be mounted anywhere - rigid enough to mount a flat screen or bookshelf from, regardless of stud placement. Screw holes can be patched with putty.
Basement to Beautiful video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B24pDEMQ-lw
Floors:
Carpet Tiles - They call it ThermalDry. Tiles are polypropylene base with polyolefin carpet top. It's a modular, floating interlocking carpet tile floor matting system that creates a airspace between concrete floor and your feet with spacers on the bottom of the tile. The company also has regular tile and wood planking options which I considered and hit later..
Product Link:
http://www.mateflex.com/products/carpetflex
Ceiling:
Unfinished Ceiling Painted with black Dryfall w recessed lighting cans installed and painted to match ceiling.
Question 1:
The ceiling. I've done as much research and read through as much as I could find on forums regarding how to address one of my biggest acoustic issues. the low ceiling. The height from floor to unfinished ceiling is just shy of 7 feet. The living room to the house is right above where the mixing area will be and I have a 4 and 6 year old with heavy feet, so impact noise is a bit of a struggle, but something I can deal with based on how and what I'll be recording.
Taking everything into consideration, I need a solution for the ceiling that ideally balances:
A. Isolation - (impact noise from above and my noise from below at 3AM in the morning w late night mixing session),
B. Absorption - high / mid freq absorption, some bass trapping would be a bonus.
C. Doesn't look horrible
D. Doesn't sacrifice precious ceiling height and close off duct work and wiring.
As far as the impact noise, I plan to eventually add some thick carpet in the living room to soften footfalls but I realize that without adding mass, I can't do much on that end (except maybe training them to walk like little ninjas). Drywall for the ceiling is not an option. Closes off ductwork / electrical and absorbs very little, which is a high priority for my control room-esque environment. Keeping with one of my inorganic materials priorities, I want to try to avoid drywall as a whole. Contractor also does not offer it as an option so I'd have to do that myself.
Regarding TBF (Total Basement Finishing - company I'm using), they offer a drop ceiling option with 2 x 2 foot .55 NRC mineral fiber tiles from USG. From most of the folks in a similar situation on these forums, it seems the recommendation if there is a choice is to skip the drop ceiling entirely in favor of ceiling height. Also read that these tiles are great for office environments, but poor for high-frequency absorption. Aesthetically, I don't like the way the tiled ceilings look and it's even less favorable to me to lower the ceiling 4 inches. On the other hand I've seen mention of ceiling tiles topped w the fluffy or Roxul being a potential bass trapping option. I've run across another ceiling tile system mentioned in the forums (which I could probably install myself) called CeilingMAX that flush mounts the frame under the joists so you would only lose about 1/2 inch of ceiling height instead of 4 inches.
Regarding leaving the ceiling unfinished, I ran across a post from a fella named Craig John on the AVS forum who had a pre-existing drop ceiling and was looking for the best way to treat it. Ethan Winer suggested, " pull out the grid, which will give you more height, and pack the cavities between joists entirely with fluffy fiberglass. Then you can staple fabric to the joist bottoms, and add thin wood trim strips to cover the staples. This will be much more absorbent at high frequencies than any ceiling tile, and all that fiberglass will give a nice amount of bass trapping. It will also cost less than replacing one grid with another, and is probably less work too."
A member of the John Sayers' forum, beautyfish, posted, "With my seven foot ceilings, I would like to make the control room ceiling "disappear" as much as possible, both acoustically and visually" where he mentioned the insulation / cloth idea as well. I've seen this idea echoed by a few others.
Out of all my research, this solution seemed to me to be the most logical, balanced solution to construction / treatment of the ceiling. Mentioned this to my finishing guy with TBF I'll be working with and he said they could just paint the ceiling with black Dryfall. I like the aesthetic of the industrial look and the idea of the ceiling disappearing visually.
So…with the desired sonic goal of the space (control room dynamics -acoustic neutrality, pretty dry), and the 'givens' (aforementioned wall materials, carpet floor tiling,) am I on the right track with the solution of insulating the joists and then stapling fabric to the joists? If so, is it better to use Roxul (and specifically what kind), the pink fluffy, or rigid pink? Is there anything that I am missing? Also, regarding aesthetics, does anyone have a picture of what this looks like as a finished product?
Question 2:
My decision to use TBF's carpet tiles was based on several factors:
A. Again, inorganic. The polypropylene construction and carpet material they use have nothing for mold to feed on. Also if there is ever a plumbing leak, the floor doesn't have to be torn up.
B. Sound. Absorptive w high (and some mids?) frequencies.
C. Aesthetics. I like the color and it blends well with the wall tones. I can walk around barefoot if I wanted to.
D. Future proof. Modular system - you spill coffee and stain it, you can replace the specific tiles if they are beyond washing. If a tile is damaged, you replace that tile.
The company has three other options - wood plank vinyl flooring, vinyl tile (ceramic look), or vinyl subfloor system that carpet can be laid on top of. All options create the air pocket off the floor which provides the thermal break.
Video link to their flooring options:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-9XFxaLpw
From what I understand, a reflective floor is favorable in a tracking room, (esp if recording drums), but absorption as a mentality for a control room (esp a smaller one with low ceilings) is favorable. If I do the ceiling with the Roxul and fabric and use the carpet tile from the floors, there would be a good deal of absorption from that. From what I understand, you don't necessarily want any room TOTALLY dead. The wall vinyl coverings are hard, reflective and probably insignificantly diffusive because of their slightly raised varied alligatored texture. Given the materials they offer, am I on the right track with these carpet tiles for what I want to accomplish with the space?
Question 3:
From the basic diagram of the basement, you can see that it's pretty much a 12 x 24 rectangle. Early on with the design, I was considering dividing this space into a control room / tracking room, and getting the dimensions of the control room to closely match one of the ideal room ratios. This idea was also of value from a teaching perspective, as students (especially vocal) become embarrassed when the next lesson shows up because their mistakes can be heard and so on. Control room would function as the lesson room and tracking area as the waiting area. When I investigated the potential sound physics / consequences of the splitting idea however, (standing waves, room nodes, sound pressure), the general wisdom seemed to be, it may look / seem cool in your head, but better to have a big space the LF big waves.
Don't know anything about Brandon Drury, but I came across an article of his titled, 'Top 11 Recording Studio Construction Mistakes.' Regarding splitting the room, he posted, "I never understood why people don’t just take a chainsaw and cut their car in half to make two cars. Two cars is better than one. If you have tried this OR you have taken a perfectly good 10′x20′ room and cut it into two horrible sounding rooms, you know that neither approach works. There is a critical mass when it comes to cubic volume of a room. If you nail it, you avoid all kinds of acoustical problems."
Based my research of this area in relation to the propagation of sound in a small room, this advice seemed sound. The two room idea is cooler and costs more. I sacked it, but construction hasn't begun yet. The question is, based on my goals with the space, is this (one big room instead of two smaller ones) the right starting call pre-treatment to achieve the best acoustic neutrality and least pressure issues?
Question 4:
Doors. The entire basement is a square, divided by a poured concrete support wall that divides the square into two equal rectangles with 12' length - the finished room (the topic) and the unfinished laundry room. There is a bi-fold door that opens to the unfinished side where the washer, dryer, sump pump, dehumidifier, and furnace are. I would describe noise coming from this room at its' loudest point as moderate at most - not horribly loud or annoying at all. TBF uses standard hollow-core doors for their projects unless otherwise specified. There is another standard door at the top of the stairs that opens to the basement.
I am looking for one or two steps above the basic here. Best value for the dollar above standard hollow-core. Believe it or not, the hollow core will give me more than the flim-flam door that's there now. Any suggestions and or links you guys could give in this regard where a few extra bucks will go a much longer distance in terms of sound isolation?
Question 5:
Stairs and cavities above and below. Two potential issues here.
A. The stairs come down at the back of the basement to a 3'1/2" squared floor landing. Right now the area under the stairs is walled off with the old cheap wood paneling with a door that opens to the area under the stairs for storage. The mixing console is moving to the other side of the basement once it's finished. The plan as of now is to open the space totally up under the stairs into a 'Nevada' shaped area for storage under the stairs in which I could put my various guitar, bass and other cases / things. Storage areas in the basement, even with the unfinished side, are going end up being a premium. I know I will want to bass trap the corner of this area. I was also thinking (hoping) that the different sized guitar cases could double as a bit of diffusion and the finished Nevada cove under the stairs would give me a small amount of bass trapping. Regarding diffusion, another thought I had was maybe I don't want to open it all the way up - just use a taller door than what's there with the new finishing and use the other half of the wall with it's back to the stairs as flat surface for a diffusion panel as it will be the wall in the back of the room. Any thoughts on how to best maximize the potential of this area in all directions (bass trap, storage) would be much appreciated.
B. The stair area. Right now, my mixing desk is temporarily on the stair wall, and I've noticed that the stairwell area acts as as sort of resonant 'sound cave.' The slanted surface directly above the stairs is the underside of the stairs that go the second floor. I want to leave the general space at the bottom of the stairs how it is with the new finishing. Any great (hopefully inexpensive) DIY solutions come to mind for treatment of this area?
Question 6:
General treatment direction and order of priority. Once I get this area set up and all squared away with the finishing side of things, when it comes to treatment (traps, mid / high freq absorbers / diffusion) I want to make sure I'm on the right track. I haven't done as much homework on the treatment end yet and may start a separate thread after researching this area as much as I can, but so far this is what I've got, in order of priority.
Bass traps first priority - in the corners, larger gap from corner to trap the better. Bigger traps the better, especially for my environment.
Absorption on first reflection points - still not 100% on proper placement, and size of these absorbers.
Diffuser - on wall opposite mixing desk (mixing desk will be on wall opposite the stair wall)
My monitors are K-Roks. These should be on stands and make an equilateral triangle to my ears with tweeters (or bass drivers?) being eye level. Should be decoupled from stands if possible. I've seen a bunch of information on proper placement and distance of monitors but it seems there is a degree of subjective 'play' with this to get the best distance ratio for stereo image?
Question 7:
Drywall. I know I've said this whole thread I'm trying to stay away from it, but TBF also offers an option where they do the concrete / vinyl panel on the bottom, a chair rail and then use purple board (most moisture resistant drywall) on the top. From the finishing end, this looks really cool. Not as durable. Not as easy to repair.
I've read that drywall the ability to absorb a small amount of bass. The drywall in this case would be mounted directly to those Basement to Beautiful EPS foam panels, which are mounted directly to the concrete, so I don't know how much the purple board would resonate and/or absorb bass. From a sound perspective, would there be ANY advantage to using this 1/2 purple board, 1/2 cement / vinyl option? Again, no finishing done yet, no materials ordered as of today.
I think that about covers all the bases for now. Want to thank you guys for being a place where this information is available in public forum. Thank you in advance for any and all help / advice you can give on my project!
You have that completely backwards! You do NOT need high or mid absorption in your ceiling. You absolutely DO need bass trapping. Abundant bass trapping. It's not a "bonus": it's the main purpose!