John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi all,

What do you think of this production desk design? The desktop is black concrete which I'm thinking will look terrific, but I'm hesitating because it's a bit novel for a studio application. Unlike wood, if the design is ill-conceived for any reason, it'll be an expensive mistake. And there's little chance of modifying the desktop (for after-the-fact cable feeds, etc.) once its poured. I did throw together a cardboard mockup, FWIW, and the ergonomics seem good, but that's all it tells me.

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated!

Dave

I like it! Seems like a nice design. However, 31" is pretty high for the top surface. Most desks are more like 28" to 29". You might find that uncomfortable, plus it increases the chances of getting nasty first-order reflections from your speakers directly into your ears. I realize you did that to leave space for the keyboard underneath without it messing with your knees, but you might want to re-think that, and see if you can get the top surface lower. Maybe you could raise the keyboard shelf a bit, or perhaps use a mechanism that slides the keyboard at an angle, so it is lower down when hidden under the surface and higher up when you slide it towards you to use it...

I do like the angles of the monitors: keeps them low and out of the way of the direct sound from the speakers, and also controls reflections from their rear surfaces.

Just my $0.02.


- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:31" is pretty high for the top surface.

Yeah, that's been the problem from the start - the MIDIBoard is huge. I considered an appliance lift of some sort, but couldn't make it work, given the MIDIBoard's depth and weight.

But I understand your point, and it's a whole lot easier to raise a desk than lower it, right? ...especially with 300 lbs. of concrete on top. So, maybe some adjustable feet....

Nothing against concrete, eh? Cool!

Thank you so much, Stuart!

Funny! I also designed my own desk with the Kurzweil Midiboard integrated. From what I see, your problem could be that the monitors are way to much angled in relation to the distnce from your head. I know, you want to have a free way for your speakers. But this way, you won't have fun working on the PC! Either, try to angle them less or get the just behind the keys. I will post a picture of my desk later ...

No kidding! You clearly have exceptional taste.

The monitor placement follows the layout of some "downview" desks I saw online and, as Stuart mentioned, is meant to block high-frequency desk reflections. But I've not worked this way before, I admit, and can't vouch for the "ergonomics" of it all just yet, and so I appreciate the warning. On the bright side, all three monitors are on flexible arms, so if it gets uncomfortable, I can stretch 'em out, lift 'em up, tilt 'em, etc., and then push 'em back during critical work. At least, that's the plan.

So, I have to ask, what did you end up with for height? How high are your MIDIBoard and desktop from the floor?

Can't wait to see your pics!

Correction: You're absolutely right - the monitors in these drawings are angled too steeply. This was an arbitrary artistic mistake. Fortunately, even when the monitors are fully righted, I still have a clear view of the mid- and high-frequency drivers. The low-frequency drivers are slightly obstructed, but shouldn't matter.

So, please never mind all my mishmash about "downview" desk layouts.

If the center of the monitor is lower than the height of your eyes, you should angle it, that it is 90 degrees to your viewing direction. But not more than that. Also, you have to test where lights from the ceiling might create reflections on the monitors that decrease the quality of picture. Lastly, test for a long time with the actual monitors how far you can have them away! All the acoustical benefits won't help much, if you get headaches by editing in your DAW a lot.

Sorry, I haven't got any good pictures. I only made some with a lot of clutter on the desk! But maybe it helps to imagine, how I tried to achieve some ergonomics. It's not perfect and I tried something unusual by integrating the keys in the desk and having the keyboard and mouse before the keys. That is why I did it myself although I am far from being a carpenter, as you probably see ...
Note, how I got the screen really close to the keys! That is how I could angle it quite a lot and have it out of the way. This is also a touchscreen, so it makes even more sense to have it pretty close.

Thank you for sharing your pics! That's a novel approach, putting the MIDIBoard behind the PC keyboard/mouse shelf. Combined with the angling, it solves a number of issues. I've been hunching over my MIDIBoard to reach my PC keyboard/mouse for decades now - not ideal at all. Getting back to Stuart's point, that's why I raised the desktop's height to 31" - so I could finally get my legs underneath the MIDIBoard and get myself closer to the PC keyboard/mouse (and controllers/surfaces).

I also like the racks (and especially your Moog Voyager ). I had something similar in an earlier design, inspired by this image. But desktop real estate ultimately won out - again, for the control surfaces.

Frankly, my design still doesn't feel great with the Mackie Control, C4, and Extenders, which are rather large. I'm back to reaching over the MIDIBoard. And it pushes the monitors pretty far back. I might have to swap them out for something more compact - maybe the Avid alternatives.

So, have you been happy with the desk? Anything you'd change?

Thanks again for sharing!

TBH I cannot tell you if I am all satisfied, yet, as a lot of things have to come together still, in order to work on that desk as intended. I am a composer (mainly film music) so I decided to abandon any mixing desks or DAW controllers. Instead, I decided for a big touch screen right behind the Keyboard. In addition, I have the big TV on the wall above and also a wide screen monitor that can be removed for mixing (above the touchscreen). I have to find out a lot, before my concept is totally finished. E.g., I want to build my own midi controller and integrate it into the left surface of the desk (Mod wheels, faders - possibly motorized ones, buttons, ...). I also build on a Lemur template controlling all my sample libraries (template) and Cubase. A lot of stuff to get done, still! And lots to learn, as this is my first exercise at soldering (the midi controller).
I can only tell you, that it works out pretty well playing the keys and having perfect access to mouse and keyboard. If I would play the keyboard at 90% of the time and only rarely use mouse and keyboard, I would have done it in the usual way, I guess. But I figured, most people lie to themselves in assuming this, as most of the time you actually edit in the sequencer as a film music composer. To really play the piano, your setup is probably better, but I have other keyboards in other places, if I really want to do that, so I don't mind this slight compromise at the working desk.
It is indeed a concept I have never quite seen anywhere before, but I like it, as far as I can tell you ...
One thing to keep in mind is: the more you angle the monitor, the more your seating position is fixed and the less you have the ability to move around and still have a perfect view.

For what it's worth, your desk LOOKS terrific. Nice job!

Admittedly, I only just became familiar with the concept of DIY controllers, 'MIDI brains,' etc. So cool! A concrete desktop limits my options here but I still might try to integrate something someday. The benefits are impossible to ignore.

Thank you and best of luck!

Me too, Dave! That is why it will take some time to develop anything. Just got into learning arduino a little bit and found a nice tutorial series on YT on DIY midi controllers based on it. You asked me about regrets regarding the design: I found out that playing the keys is very comfortable, but reaching for the mod wheel and faders of the Kurzweil is a little to far! Putting a fader box on the left side of the table was perfect, but the box itself was in the way of the lower keys then. So, this is the mistake I made, but I try to adjust, so I had the idea of implementing faders and other controls into the desk.

We're in the same boat cuz I don't like the MIDIBoard's mod wheel that springs back to zero like a pitch bender. [I wonder if there's a DIY mod to disable that spring.] So, I'm also looking for a low-profile mod wheel controller - maybe something like Yamaha's ancient MCS2? But smaller.

It's always somethin'.

Yes, I also don't like the mod wheel. Did you also notice that you only have half of the resolution with the modwheel (64 instead of 128 steps). I also thought about deactivating the spring, which shouldn't be to difficult! But then I noticed, that the position is not good in my desk, so I took the midi DIY route.
The only other thing about the midi board are:
1) in my opinion, the point, where each key sends its note off message is a little to early. I notice, that you have to overlap notes more when playing sample libraries with legato patches in a faster tempo. I have to edit the overlaps more than with my previous keyboard.
2) Sometimes I play one note and get two rapidly following ones. I think this is basically the same problem as 1)
3) I would wish a little bit more resolution with the lower velocities. It is pretty hard to produce low velocities of 1 - 40 intentionally IMO.
Can you confirm my observations?
However, most keyboards are much worse in all of those categories ... and I wanted polyphonic aftertouch, so this is still my favorite keyboard. I ordered a new Vax keyboard on kickstarter, which will arrive in spring 2016. Maybe this will be even better, but then I would have to build a new desk ...! (I am kidding!)

I don't recall seeing the behaviors you describe, but I'll take a look when I get things put back together. But it might not be an apples-to-apples comparison. Apparently, there were a few incarnations of the MIDIBoard, with the later, Japanese version being more desirable than the US version for reasons relating to the keybed and action - maybe relevant to your experience? Check out this thread, for example: http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=1211.

I've heard at least one person complain of a performance slider (Attack Velocity, Release Velocity, Touch, etc.) having less than full range. This could prevent you from getting the attack and release behavior you'd like. Fortunately, those sliders can be bypassed - program Setup Parameters 10-14 via keypad and save the setup. It's a long shot, but maybe worth a try.