John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

This is my first post on this forum and am excited to be a part of it

Lets start with an overview of where I'm at and what I'm trying to achieve. So i am remodelling my bedroom and i have this unusual pocket of space for my setup which includes laptop, midi controllers, synth, and monitors. Now this Pocket of space is really small, and I have made a drawing to indicate its dimensions, but its mostly going to be the space where I make electronic music and get at least decent mixes out of it. Now I assume that since this is such a small pocket of space, I will get a heightened bass response, so my first guess is that I'm mainly gonna need absorption.
What I've done so far is that I've installed an absorption panel on the ceiling of this space. The panel is end to end and has 3 layers of 2" thick Rockwool in it. So that's a total of 6" thick rock wool in the ceiling panel. There are some support wooden frames in the middle of the panel. There is also a ceiling light point in the centre of the panel, so maybe all sound that hits the ceiling won't be absorbed. Some might get reflected.


Lets look at the Drawings and images -
In the 3D images, the light grey material that you see on the sides and at the top of the desk are planned to be absorbers, but if you guys have other ideas please let me know. The open area behind the desk will be a tall window which will reflect sound back to the listener, so some absorption panels will probably be needed there too. Basically I thought that since this is a very small pocket, it will create a lot of bass frequency problems and reflections for which i will need absorption. The question is does this seem like the right way to go..? The wall to the left is a brick wall, as shown in the drawings as well.

The only advantage i see in this setup is that the sound fired from the monitors, will be about 15 feet away from the back wall. so at least the little pocket that I'm cramming the desk into is open from one side to let the sound escape adequately.


My Questions and concerns -

>The wall panels. How to go about it, absorption or diffusion ?
>If Absorption, then how much ? 2" thick RW panels with 1" air gap behind ? OR 4" thick rock wool with 2" air gap behind ? OR your suggestions..
>My space is quite limited so I'd like to not over thicken my panels if thats possible.
>The studio monitors I'm using don't put out a ton of bass in the first place, so maybe the amount of absorption required might be lesser than I expect. But If I add a subwoofer, then maybe ill need more absorption.
>Also I don't want the space to sound too dead.


Budget is not a problem as I am capable of building end to end wall panels with my architectural skills.
I am aware that this is a far less than ideal setup, but I'm looking for workable results. Any advice on how i should go about this is appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Suraj.

Anyone ?

There is an announcement at the top of the forum about what to do to assure getting as many responses as possible.
The announcement leads to this post (click here). Actually, several people on this forum who are experts will most likely not reply if you don't do what is written in that post. Many others who are very helpful, will probably not reply out of respect for the moderators' wishes.

- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:There is an announcement at the top of the forum about what to do to assure getting as many responses as possible.
The announcement leads to this post (click here). Actually, several people on this forum who are experts will most likely not reply if you don't do what is written in that post. Many others who are very helpful, will probably not reply out of respect for the moderators' wishes.

- Stuart -

Hi Stuart,

I apologise for not following the guidelines that you linked me to. I have gone through the list and edited the Original post with as much information I could provide as per those guidelines. Hope to receive valuable answers.

Thanks,
Suraj.

Anyone..??

Please let me know if any more details are needed.. thanks..

I would not put your equipment into such a tiny space. At only 5' wide, that's way too small to be usable for serious mixing: you can't get the speakers far enough apart, and far enough away from you, to create an acceptable sound-stage. There is also terrible symmetry in that location: your lef ear is just inches from the left wall, while your right ear is man, many feet from the right wall. The stereo image would be extremely skewed, and so would the frequency response

I'd suggest putting the TV in that alcove, and setting up your gear in the middle of the wall where the TV is right now. That is still not an ideal location, but much, MUCH better than the tiny niche.

so maybe all sound that hits the ceiling won't be absorbed. Some might get reflected.

You seem to be confused about what porous absorption does: it does not stop sound getting through: it merely damps some of the sound as it goes through and comes back again. That insulation will only reduce the sound intensity of the reflections by a few decibels, especially considering that it will be mostly mid and low frequency energy.

The question is does this seem like the right way to go..?

No. That isn't a usable location if you want mixes that translate well. There are just too many problems with it.

Sorry. I know that's not what you wanted to hear, but that's the reality: it would not be worth spending any time of money trying to make that space usable: Just move your gear to the far, far better location on the middle of the wall where the TV is right now, then treat the room conventionally. You could use that alcove as a large bass trap! That would work.


- Stuart -

Hello..!

It's been a while since I've posted anything on this thread. I just wanted to share what I have done, and this info might help someone down the line.

Stuart, this is just an update, not to contest anything you've written previously, but I went ahead with my plan as this was the only space I could dedicate for my setup. The image is worth a thousand words, so that describes most of it.
Looking at the image, the left and right walls of the table are 3" wooden frames with 2.5" rock wool insulation in them. Its a composite sandwich of rockwools, so I've used 0.5inch of 46Kg/m3 density RW and then behind that is 2" of 96Kg/m3 density RW. There is a 0.5" air gap behind that where there is a wall.
Behind the table, Ive put two bass traps in the corners. 6" thick panel, with 1 layer of 46density RW and 2 layers of 96density RW. There is a space between the two bass traps which is my window blind, which is the same fabric as the panels, so it all looks continuous Being an architect I guess I cannot ignore aesthetics. :p
The ceiling has a floating panel which holds a total of 6" thick RW, same composite sandwich as the bass trap.

I know my monitors are probably oversized for this space - HS8's, but these give me a fuller range sound than the hs5's. I keep them on medium volume, incase that info helps anyone.
Since my space is tiny, I figured I cannot have too much absorption, so I put as much as the space would allow. The sleek hanging light is just for visual effect and it may diffuse the sound to an extent.


BOTTOM LINE : I thought this idea won't work out acoustically, but I am quiet happy with the results. My mixes are translating fairly well, and I can perceive a very well spread out stereo soundstage. I know it would have been better had there been more available space, but this works for me

Stuart, I thank you for your expertise and suggestions. Feel free to make any further suggestions or comments

Later...

It looks really nice, aesthetically! And if that's the only possible place you could put your gear, then it sure is a lot better than no place at all, especially if it is working out OK for you.

so I've used 0.5inch of 46Kg/m3 density RW and then behind that is 2" of 96Kg/m3 density RW.

I'm just wondering why you did that: Where you expecting to have an issue with high frequencies? Is that why you put the dense wool in there? I would not think that you have a problem with highs in that space. On the contrary, I would expect all your issues to be in the low end, which is why it's surprising that you used high density mineral wool.

I know my monitors are probably oversized for this space - HS8's,

Those are probably fine for that space. If you go any smaller than that, you wouldn't get much low end.

Since my space is tiny, I figured I cannot have too much absorption,

The sleek hanging light is just for visual effect and it may diffuse the sound to an extent.

I doubt that it is doing any diffusion, except maybe in the extreme high end, but it looks REALLY cool! I love it!

I can perceive a very well spread out stereo soundstage.

Great! But how's the frequency response, and time-domain response, and phase response? It would be great if you could run a REW test on your room, and post the results here. You can download REW for free from the Home Theater Shack website. I'd love to see the actual response curves.


- Stuart -

It would be really good if you could do that REW test. The software is free, it's easy to use, and it will give you a good graphical representation of how the room is behaving. Post the data file that it creates here, and I'll analyze it for you.


- Stuart -