Part Time Mix Suite in Florida

[dubhausdisco]

Hello and greetings everyone!

My name is Dave and I've been frequenting the forum for quite some time, much more recently since we've made the move to a new house. I've read up on the forum concerning similar situations to my own, and while it's awesome to see so many great replies from senior members, many of the original posters seem to vanish. I'm not here to do that. Good news is there is still much valuable
information tucked away in those threads!

Anyway, Our last house we lived at for five years, in which time I had such an impossibly small room that I had given up on taming it. For that, I apologize....

I live with my wife and daughter in Sarasota, Florida in a newly renovated (more on this soon) rented house which was built in 1977. The exterior is typical for a Florida house: finished concrete, single level "rambler". The interior, which has been recently remodeled, is typical drywall (1/2 inch I believe, sounds too thin to be 5/8).
Unfortunately for me, my room has brand spanking new fluffy unpredictable air-sucking CARPET on the floor! Which I'm afraid must stay. As it is a rental, I need to be clever with my acoustic treatment as I am not able to do anything beyond small nails etc. I need to add that inside the closet there are two standard shelves. I've already taken the doors off and once I remove the shelves there is enough wood to anchor panels etc in the closet..








Ok, still with me?

The space will be used mainly for mixing, and to a lesser extent for demo production of my own music. I don't plan on ever recording anything with an open mic in the room, I've ran a snake out to the garage and control Pro Tools wirelessly (and
we'll say no more about this garage for the time being Currently I am not concerned with any leakage in or out of the structure, but that will change one day, just not at this residence. I am using standard fare, ProTools, with a cheese
grater Mac Pro, old Digi 002 for the faders, Benchmark DAC1, Senheiser HD600's, and Mackie MR5 5" monitors (which will soon transform magically into Adam A5X's)
The space will also need to be available for temporary guest accommodations from time to time, as is the style in Florida.
My budget is rock bottom, probably around $500 US to start. I understand I'll be making superchunks and panels.. I'm good with tools and such so I look forward to it!
I am brand new to sketchup, but here is (very) rough first look. Trying to understand everything I've read here, and balancing it with my non-musical requirements of the room, I would LIKE to face the desk into the closet, which would be
heavily treated with superchunks and broadband panels.
I understand this flies in the face of symmetry, but I really don't see any other way to utilize the space.... Facing the window gives me the void of the closet on the left (which I know should probably be packed full of absorption but I can't afford that much space or material). Facing 90 degrees to the right gives me gear problems due to the door, that wall is adjoining my daughter's bedroom, and I'd have no room for the occasional guest. I understand you guys can only give so much assistance with crazy limitations like this, but I just want to make sure I'm not making crazy decisions.. I mean cmon, purposely facing my desk into a closet?!?!?

Due to my carpet problem, I also understand I'll need to preserve some high frequency info by covering the superchunks with plastic or something...

I've been looking at the Roxul Safe n Sound 24"x48"x3", hopefully thats a good thickness to double up on the rear wall etc...

Ok here is the first rough pic of how it is set up now. Only the desk is pictured until I figure out how to model
everything else!! I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it with the limited time I have etc..

Luna Studio 2 desk window.jpg

and the Sketchup file for it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t1ficyht3sek2 ... w.skp?dl=0




also I have an uninformed mad scientist idea for the closet with the desk facing in...with mega chunks (left side of a 24"x48"x3" mineral wool is cut, and due to extra space in the closet on the right side, the remaining piece is flipped over and goes on the right side), and due to the cost of that I wouldn't be able to go all the way to the ceiling. Yet.

I suppose the question there would be is it going to mess up the stereo image by having so much more mass on the right side? Is it just unacceptable to do what I am suggesting?

Luna Studio 2 my idea.jpg

Maybe a couple of corner absorbers (the equilateral triangle with mineral wool behind) for the top corners, and definitely a thick panel between the speakers and the facing wall. Possibly absorbers in the first reflection zone on the left and right- would they need wood panels (slats?) as I have the feeling its gonna get dead in here really fast!


Hopefully I am using the right terminology and once I get better at Sketchup it will be easier..


Thanks for your patience and I hope I have covered everything!

[dubhausdisco]

okay, I think I've figured out how to use REW.

These are with the desk as it is in the second picture, facing the closet for space. No treatment, currently unable to completely empty out room at present... Desk is facing the closet 5 inches out from wall to allow 4" broadband absorption. I will update the original post with the updated Sketchup soon...

I might add that the AC is above the garage about 25' away, and I can hear when it runs in my room.
is it the closet or the AC that is responsible for the enormous amount of subsonic energy or am I not doing this correctly?

Left Speaker:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oitplyrnsv2xz ... .mdat?dl=0

Right Speaker:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wi11e90e0sj5m ... .mdat?dl=0

Both Speakers:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/a9fi30bjtaajw ... .mdat?dl=0


EDIT:
Ok for educational purposes (acoustics 101), I've left the three bad measurements up... Here is the mdat with the AC OFF!


https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3u653r1bzwdd ... .mdat?dl=0


EDIT #2: Now I am entertaining the idea of the desk facing the opposite wall of the closet, as storage has become an issue here.. ugh...
researching superchunks on casters, so I can roll it in front of the door, or just leave the door open?

anyway, I am still working at Sketchup, REW, and reviewing my old Everest texts to prepare myself. I want to wait and hear back before I shift everything around and sweep from the other placement....

EDIT #3: I've abandoned the idea of facing the closet completely, and am working towards a design with the closet at the back of the listening position:

Luna Studio 5-1 Desk facing East.jpg

...and the sketchup file (even though its messy)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/mjk3ddbg9vxzy ... t.skp?dl=0


Superchunks are 17" face, and I want to make them easily movable (modular) because I expect that by the time I finish the room, we'll have to move


everything is just in the preliminary planning stage, as I've still not got a grasp on sketchup and my free trial is running out.. obviously there is a lot of treatment missing (i picked up my roxul s&s this morning) but I am kind of waiting to hear back here and doing more research before committing to a plan.

Edit: 2015-7-10
All of the above is no longer valid and I've abandoned most of the plans. I started by building 2'x4'x6" thick roxul s&s panels. Burlap on the front and muslin on the back.
I've got four of them, and I've done simple listening tests and quickly determined they suck all of the highs out of the room (remember I've got non-removable carpet which is probably why I've seen no replies to this thread...)
Looking at putting slats on those four, and getting supplies to build 4 more..

For speaker stands I've went the cheap route and bought an array of cinder blocks, which will support the 6" panels behind my monitors and possibly around the room. More later as I am trying to figure out how big the slats should be and the gap dimensions...



Again, thanks for your time!

[Soundman2020]

Hi there Dave, and welcome!

The exterior is typical for a Florida house: finished concrete,

So the walls themselves are concrete? Are they poured in place, or just pref-fab slabs, fitted together?

The interior, which has been recently remodeled, is typical drywall (1/2 inch I believe

Ooops! Not so good...

my room has brand spanking new fluffy unpredictable air-sucking CARPET on the floor! Which I'm afraid must stay.

Easy to fix: drop a layer of plywood, OSB or MDF on top of it, then lay laminate flooring on that. Then if you ever leave, you can take it all with you, and leave the untouched carpet behind for the next guy...

My budget is rock bottom, probably around $500 US to start. I understand I'll be making superchunks and panels.

Yup. but you likely don't have enough budget for full superchunks: you can probably only make simple corner absorbers, on that budget.

I would LIKE to face the desk into the closet, which would be heavily treated with superchunks and broadband panels.

I would not do that! Symmetry is CRITICAL for mixing, and you would not have symmetry like that. It seems to me that the only place you can get symmetry there, is to face the window and block off the closet. Second best (a distant second best....) would be to face the room to the right, with the front being the wall marked "143.1". That limits you in terms of treatment, but it's still far better than trying to mix inside a closet...

I understand this flies in the face of symmetry,

Yes it does, which is why I would not even consider it.

Facing the window gives me the void of the closet on the left (which I know should probably be packed full of absorption but I can't afford that much space or material).

Board it up with a very thick layer of drywall, plywood, or suchlike, tacked gently into the door frame... then repair the nail damage when you take that off again, if you ever leave. Yep, the closet then becomes wasted space, but there's not much else you can do.

but I just want to make sure I'm not making crazy decisions..

I mean cmon, purposely facing my desk into a closet?!?!

? Yep.

Due to my carpet problem, I also understand I'll need to preserve some high frequency info by covering the superchunks with plastic or something..

.... and also bolt your desk and chair to the ceiling, but with a seat belt harness attached to the chair, so you can hang in there without falling out... That would give you the correct acoustic orientation, but the blood rushing to your head all the time might be an issue... ! OK, seriously: the issue isn't just the amount of high frequency absorption that carpet gives you, but also the fact that it is in the WRONG place. Psycho-acoustically, you need a hard floor and a soft ceiling. That's what your ears and brain are most accustomed to, and that's what you need to be hearing in order to mix accurately. Hard floor BELOW your ears, and soft ceiling ABOVE your ears. (Or diffuse ceiling, if it is high enough...)

Is it just unacceptable to do what I am suggesting?

You probably don't want to hear the honest answer to that, but I think you already know what it is!

okay, I think I've figured out how to use REW.

... and I'm sure that by looking at your own graphs, you can clearly see why this is as unworkable layout. The huge, major, gigantic differences between the left and right speakers in the mids and lows, is your answer....

EDIT #2: Now I am entertaining the idea of the desk facing the opposite wall of the closet,

Yup!

EDIT #3: I've abandoned the idea of facing the closet completely,

I guess the REW graphs were plenty scary enough to convince you of that?

as I've still not got a grasp on sketchup and my free trial is running out..

Get "SketchUp Make": It's free forever. It's only the pro version that has a time-limit on it. You don't need the extra tools for what you are doing.

Looking at putting slats on those four, and getting supplies to build 4 more..

Not slats! Just wrap the insulation itself with thin plastic, before you put the cloth on the front.

For speaker stands I've went the cheap route and bought an array of cinder blocks,

Good move! Those will work well.

More later as I am trying to figure out how big the slats should be and the gap dimensions...

I would make the gaps about 8 feet high, and the slats no more than a millimeter wide...
Seriously don't do tuned slats on corner absorbers that close to your ears. In fact, don't do "tuned" anything close to your ears (within about ten feet). Just cover the insulation with plastic, and post some REW graphs, and some photos!


- Stuart -

[dubhausdisco]

Thanks for your reply!

Yes, the more I researched what I was proposing and realized that I basically needed to get back to writing... I was going to go and delete the thread but it's definitely a "what not to do" first post!

Anyway I took my 3 cases of roxul S&S and built 12 2'x4'x6" panels, some on stands etc. I've since moved out of that room and into a front living room where I'll be using the panels in the corners etc.

Good news is no carpet there, a hard imitation wood floor on concrete. I'll hang a simple cloud over mix position and call it a day. For now.

Anyway thanks very much for your reply again! Hopefully I can re-emerge in the future with more reasonable circumstances!

All the best,
Dave

[Soundman2020]

I've since moved out of that room and into a front living room where I'll be using the panels in the corners etc.

Sounds like a very smart move!

Hopefully I can re-emerge in the future with more reasonable circumstances!

I certainly hope so too. I look forward to seeing that here on the forum, when it happens!


- Stuart -