John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi all, what a great site! Signed up yesterday and have been reading through various threads, and already it is proving to be an invaluable resource in my own upcoming studio build.

For the first time now I have the opportunity to build a self contained studio outhouse/shed/hut/yurt (whatever you want to call it), separate and exterior to my house. It will serve primarily as a room for producing and mixing electronic music. I won't be tracking any instruments or vocals - this will be more of a synth den

I am still very much in the initial ideas phase, so nothing is set in stone yet, and am very open to as much suggestions and help I can get from here as possible. I'm sure I will have many questions to come as I nut everything out, but to start with I just thought I'd post this video of the construction of a wooden framed yurt by an Australian company "Goulburn Yurtworks"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmCK5KJTJ0E

I have always had a thing for six sided structures and am also intrigued by their use of non vertical walls here - maybe that would help acoustically? Or maybe it could be a complete disaster! I've already read about dome shaped roofs being less than ideal. I would also be aiming to make it a bit bigger that the one in the video. But in any case I'd love to hear some opinions of hexagonal shaped studios... Good or bad idea?

Cheers

Apologies just realised this is probably more suited to the Studio Design subforum. Mods please feel free to move it if you think so.

Hi there "Zam", and welcome to the forum!

I won't be tracking any instruments or vocals - this will be more of a synth den

That's good news! Then you likely won't need too much isolation, unless there are also noises outside that you need to block.

to start with I just thought I'd post this video of the construction of a wooden framed yurt

That doesn't look big enough to be very useful as a studio, to be honest. It is also square! (Or rather, hexagonal), meaning all walls are the same length: that will give you very lousy "modal response" in your room. It's better to go with a rectangular design where there is no simple mathematical relationship between any of the 3 dimensions.

I have always had a thing for six sided structures and am also intrigued by their use of non vertical walls here - maybe that would help acoustically?

Non-vertical is actually not a bad idea, but six-sided (or any regular geometric shape: square, penta, hexa, octa, etc) is a bad idea. Length, width and height should be different. search the forum for "room ratio" and "modal response"...

I've already read about dome shaped roofs being less than ideal.

Yup! Very true...

I would also be aiming to make it a bit bigger that the one in the video.

Quite a lot bigger! The bigger the better...


- Stuart -

Thanks for the detailed response Stuart

Yes in a way I knew it was not ideal and guess I put it down to wishful thinking that I could actually use a hexagonal structure! All good though, I have done more research on this forum and now have a better understanding of why it's not ideal. I'm also waiting for Rod Gervais' book to arrive in the mail, and am looking forward to diving into that and learning much more. Although this forum is undoubtedly a fantastic resource, sometimes I find it difficult to find the information I need through thread searching, at least until I have a better foundation of knowledge first. Hopefully the book will help getting me up to speed.

I guess what I was also getting at, but didn't describe it properly with my question in the first post - was that when building a completely freestanding structure/studio, what are the benefits either way of, say:

A) Building the structure externally in a standard way as a rectangle, and then internally building up a second set of angled walls/ceilings to reduce room modes (the "room within a room" way)

or

B) Building the structure so that both externally and internally it is made up of the same angled walls/ceilings, so simply, bypassing building a second room within a room and it just being an asymmetrical structure inside and out.

I'm only asking this because, from browsing all the build on this forum, they pretty much all seem to be room within a room in usually pre-existing structures. The people that do build freestanding studios, still seem to build it externally as a rectangle, then fit it out internally with the angled walls/ceilings.

I do like the idea of B) as I like a challenge and would also like to build a visually interesting structure if possible. But I am also aware that may be biting off far more than I can chew!

what are the benefits either way of, say:

A) Building the structure externally in a standard way as a rectangle, and then internally building up a second set of angled walls/ceilings to reduce room modes (the "room within a room" way)

or

B) Building the structure so that both externally and internally it is made up of the same angled walls/ceilings, so simply, bypassing building a second room within a room and it just being an asymmetrical structure inside and out.

There are pro's and con's for both, but if you don't build a "room within a room" (ie, decoupling the inner-leaf from the outer leaf), then you don't get good isolation! That's one of the keys to achieving high isolation: keeping the mass on the inner-leaf of the room totally disconnected from the mass on the outer leaf.

However, angling walls and the ceiling does not "reduce room modes". The modes will always be there, since they are a simple consequence of having walls! Angling a wall does not get rid of a mode: it just changes it from one type to another. So instead of being an axial mode (which is easy to calculate), it might become a tangential mode, or an oblique mode, which are much harder to calculate. In addition, adding more walls makes it even harder to predict the modal response, since there are now many other ways that standing waves can form. So angling walls doesn't necessarily improve modal response. It might, or it might not.

The people that do build freestanding studios, still seem to build it externally as a rectangle, then fit it out internally with the angled walls/ceilings.

Right! Because that's the easiest, best, least expensive way to get high isolation at low cost.

- Stuart -

Ok, it's all starting to make a bit more sense! (now with the "Build it like the Pro's" book)

Soundman2020 wrote:There are pro's and con's for both, but if you don't build a "room within a room" (ie, decoupling the inner-leaf from the outer leaf), then you don't get good isolation! That's one of the keys to achieving high isolation: keeping the mass on the inner-leaf of the room totally disconnected from the mass on the outer leaf.

Understood. Good isolation is definitely important as I don't want to annoy the neighbours! In that case it seems it is going to be more beneficial and definitely less of a headache to simply build a conventionally shaped building, and then construct the inner leaf. I would be interested though in what the pros might be building in the way of B?

I am considering however going for a skillion style roof, and having exposed rafters for the roof (because they look nice!)... Maybe this is another design feature I may have to let go of for something more conventional, to avoid funky room modes.

In the meantime though, there is a whole assortment of hoops I need to jump through regarding inspections/reports/permits before I even think about building anything! Bloody councils... Ugh!

Also, apologies on my incorrect use of terminologies, I'm getting there slowly