John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

I'm trying to build a studio in my new apartment (I know, it's an apartment, so I can't do much permanent building). I have 2 rooms: one is 18' 8" x 11' 6" x 8' 10" high (which I planned on turning into the mixing room), and the other is 10' 1/2" x 7' 6" x 8' 11.5" high (for the vocal booth). I've been reading about room ratios and it seems that the height is supposed to be less than both the length and the width, which could be a problem with my booth room. But I don't really understand how to use the node calculators, so I can't really tell if my booth dimensions would present a significant problem. Can anybody tell me whether the smaller room could work for a vocal booth? I do have a bunch of 703 fiberglass to use, plus four 4" bass traps inspired by Ethan Winer that somebody gave me, along with moving blankets, for treatment.

Or should I just use the larger room for both mixing and recording? The problem with the larger room is that it doesn't have doors. It has an open double-doorway to the entryway, and 2 open single doorways to the kitchen and bathroom hallway. I assume this would be a problem acoustically. Maybe I could try to install my own doors. There are also 3 windows in the bigger room, vs. only one in the smaller one (which I was going to board up), so outside noise would be more of an issue for recording in the bigger room.

Basically, should I bother turning the smaller room into a vocal booth, or just use all my acoustic treatment for the larger room? I don't want to start building without knowing it will work.

Thanks for the help.

I guess the other option would be to decrease the length and height to make the dimensions match one of the ideal ratios: 1.00 x 1.14 x 1.39. So since the limiting factor is the 7.5' width, I would have to make the length (1.39/1.14)(7.5') = 9.14' and the height (1/1.14)(7.5') = 6.58'.

Should I bother doing that or should I just try to make the existing room as dead as possible (or record in the big mixing room)? Adding the ceiling would also help insulate more from the loud apartment above me at least. But the ceiling would be pretty low, especially after adding fiberglass. (Plus one of my rappers is 6'4"... But he could duck I guess). I should add that I'd like to record bass and guitar cabs in here as well.

Sorry that these are my first posts. I've been lurking for a while now and I love your forum. Please take pity on my newb status.

Hi there "gingerbeets". Welcome!

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

I've been reading about room ratios and it seems that the height is supposed to be less than both the length and the width,

Usually that's the case, yes, but it doesn't have to be. The convention is that the height goes first as the initial "1" in the room ratio, but if you have high ceilings and a narrow room, then you can validly turn that "sideways", since sound waves do not care which way is "up". So it is fine to use the room width as the smaller number, then the height where the width would normally be, then the length as normal. As long as you always keep that in mind when thinking about your room modes and how to treat them, then you are OK.

But I don't really understand how to use the node calculators, so I can't really tell if my booth dimensions would present a significant problem.

Ratios are more important in control rooms, less important in live rooms, tracking rooms and booths. So don't sweat it too much: as long as you don't have a terrible ratio for your booth (eg, width and height both 9 feet, and length 18 feet), then you should be good.

Can anybody tell me whether the smaller room could work for a vocal booth?

It's a little small, but I have seen far smaller too! It will work, but will probably need to be rather dead-ish, acoustically.

I do have a bunch of 703 fiberglass to use, plus four 4" bass traps inspired by Ethan Winer that somebody gave me, along with moving blankets, for treatment.

Forget the moving blankets, but the rest is good!

The problem with the larger room is that it doesn't have doors. It has an open double-doorway to the entryway, and 2 open single doorways to the kitchen and bathroom hallway.

It would be good if you could do a diagram of the rooms in SketchUp and post that here. Also post some photos of the rooms, so we can get a better idea.

I assume this would be a problem acoustically.

Yes it will! Control rooms need symmetry, and no acoustic coupling to other spaces. You'll probably need doors. But do post the SketchUp model and the photos, so we can see.

Basically, should I bother turning the smaller room into a vocal booth, or just use all my acoustic treatment for the larger room? I don't want to start building without knowing it will work.

If you have the option of two rooms, then I would certain go with two! even though the other one is on the small side, it is still usable as a vocal booth or amp iso booth, for sure.

- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:Hi there "gingerbeets". Welcome!

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

I've been reading about room ratios and it seems that the height is supposed to be less than both the length and the width,

Usually that's the case, yes, but it doesn't have to be. The convention is that the height goes first as the initial "1" in the room ratio, but if you have high ceilings and a narrow room, then you can validly turn that "sideways", since sound waves do not care which way is "up". So it is fine to use the room width as the smaller number, then the height where the width would normally be, then the length as normal. As long as you always keep that in mind when thinking about your room modes and how to treat them, then you are OK.

But I don't really understand how to use the node calculators, so I can't really tell if my booth dimensions would present a significant problem.

Ratios are more important in control rooms, less important in live rooms, tracking rooms and booths. So don't sweat it too much: as long as you don't have a terrible ratio for your booth (eg, width and height both 9 feet, and length 18 feet), then you should be good.

Can anybody tell me whether the smaller room could work for a vocal booth?

It's a little small, but I have seen far smaller too! It will work, but will probably need to be rather dead-ish, acoustically.

I do have a bunch of 703 fiberglass to use, plus four 4" bass traps inspired by Ethan Winer that somebody gave me, along with moving blankets, for treatment.

Forget the moving blankets, but the rest is good!

The problem with the larger room is that it doesn't have doors. It has an open double-doorway to the entryway, and 2 open single doorways to the kitchen and bathroom hallway.

It would be good if you could do a diagram of the rooms in SketchUp and post that here. Also post some photos of the rooms, so we can get a better idea.

I assume this would be a problem acoustically.

Yes it will! Control rooms need symmetry, and no acoustic coupling to other spaces. You'll probably need doors. But do post the SketchUp model and the photos, so we can see.

Basically, should I bother turning the smaller room into a vocal booth, or just use all my acoustic treatment for the larger room? I don't want to start building without knowing it will work.

If you have the option of two rooms, then I would certain go with two! even though the other one is on the small side, it is still usable as a vocal booth or amp iso booth, for sure.

- Stuart -

Thanks so much for the help, Stuart. I'm sorry I stupidly left a bunch of stuff out. I remember looking at the forum rules when I first signed up for the forum and feeling overwhelmed, so I didn't end up posting at all for a long time. When I came back to actually post, I totally forgot to re-read them.

Anyway, I'm in the planning/pre-construction phase of my studio project. I want to make a studio in which I can create mostly hip-hop music, from the instrumentals to the vocals, and mix it all relatively well (for an amateur, at least). I had a make-shift studio at my friends apartment for a while, but never really bothered finishing it because I was waiting to get my own place. Now that I have my own apartment, I'd like to dedicate 2 of the rooms to the studio. The vocal booth will be in my bedroom, which will basically consist of only my bed (which will be flipped against one of the doors during recording), the mic, bass/guitar cabs when necessary, and a bunch of fiberglass (and whatever acoustic treatments you suggest). I was planning on using 4 inches of OC 703 separated from the walls by 4 inches.

My room is a bit asymmetrical, with a 5.5" deep section coming out from the wall that is about 16" on top of the main door to the ceiling and 18" to the wall. There is also a 4" x 8" rectangular bump in the other corner by the window. The doors are also recessed about 6 inches. I've attached pictures of it, but I haven't figured out how to use SketchUp yet. It's fairly simple, though, so I think you'll be able to visualize my layout from the pictures. My future control room is way too messy to post pictures right now, so I just want to focus on the booth for now.

I haven't bought a sound level meter, yet, but I don't plan on being too loud and the mic I have (EV RE20) is supposed to be relatively good at picking up only the important stuff.

As for budget, I already have about $500 worth of OC 703, plus the four bass traps. I'm willing to spend $500 more or so, with the potential to expand this number if it's worth it.

So my questions are:

1. How will the asymmetries in my room affect the acoustics? How should I compensate?
2. Since, room ratios are not as important for recording booths, should I bother dropping the ceiling 8 or so inches and decreasing the width around 4 inches to match one of the ideal ratios (flipping the room to use the narrow width as the height)? Or should I just try to deaden the existing room?
3. Since I am flipping the room on its side acoustically, how would I account for that when dealing with room modes and adding acoustic treatments? Should I put fiberglass on the floor as well?
4. If moving blankets are useless, what should I do to tame reflections/high frequencies?

Thanks. I hope this post is slightly less useless than my first one. I had typed a longer one earlier today but it got lost, so I hope I didn't forget anything.