John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi all, first post so bear with me guys! I'm hoping to finally start a new build out the back of my house in the countryside in Ireland. The studio will be about 50 metres from a road with my house (separate building) in between. I've been reading away at rod gervais book, RA design book and forums and slowly getting there as to understanding whats required. I record mainly folk/traditional music and would only very rarely be dealing with drums or bass. Please have a look at my attached design to see what you guys think. Im kind of stuck to the general layout (L shape) as I'm replacing old farm sheds which have now been knocked. The room height in my house is 2.44m so thats what I've been sticking to here.
Treatment wise, I already have some manufactured treatment from primacoustic and vicoustic so was thinking maybe I could just augment that with some homemade stuff and maybe some more from said manufacturers for the 'pro' look.
Sooo, questions...
- What do you think of the design in general? Rooms sizes? I was trying to stick generally to a speymer ratio (1 : 1.6 : 2.33)
- roof shape? I think I could probably slope it, like 3m one side then 2.4m other side? Or should I stick to horizontal roof inside with traditional 'triangle' roof outside? Or follow the triangle inside to give maximum height altogether? I haven't really a clue, but I'm leaning towards slightly sloped (at least on the outside) for the look. I originally thought I couldn't go higher than my house (planning permission wise) but I think now I can go up to 4m, need to double check though.
- Pretty sure I won't need to float floors?
- I splayed the wall between 2 live rooms as you can see, good idea? or pointless?
- The 3 large windows at the front are to utilise the view of the vast countryside and mountains so would love to be able to stick with these? They ok? They'll be double glass/angled etc.
- Was thinking of Mr slim mini split for heating/cooling (above each window maybe), not sure if I still need fresh air ducts? thats a whole area I'd need to read up more I think.
- any other concerns?

I'll probably have more questions in a while but for now this is where I'm at. Appreciate you guys taking your time to look at this. Great forum!

All the best,
Sean

Hi Sean. Welcome!

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

I've been reading away at rod gervais book, RA design book and forums and slowly getting there as to understanding whats required.

I would also add "Master Handbook of Acoustics" by F. Alton Everest (that's sort of the Bible for acoustics). It's a great book for getting started in acoustics.

as I'm replacing old farm sheds which have now been knocked.

What is left from those? Just the slabs, or some walls too? Roof?

Photos of what is there right now would help.

- What do you think of the design in general? Rooms sizes? I was trying to stick generally to a speymer ratio (1 : 1.6 : 2.33)

Ratios are only important for the control room: not so much for other rooms. Also, you don't need to go crazy about tweaking the dimensions perfectly: as long as you are in the general area of good ratio, that's fine.

- roof shape? I think I could probably slope it, like 3m one side then 2.4m other side?

The roof shape isn't critical: what matters most in the case of the control room, is symmetry: the ceiling on the left half of the room must be a mirror image of the ceiling on the right half. What matters most for the live room, on the other hand, is height? You want as much height as possible. So whatever roof shape you can think of that leads to those ceiling properties, is probably fine.

- Pretty sure I won't need to float floors?

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173

- I splayed the wall between 2 live rooms as you can see, good idea? or pointless?

It's fine: Not absolutely necessary, acoustically, but still useful, and it looks cool as well...

- The 3 large windows at the front are to utilise the view of the vast countryside and mountains so would love to be able to stick with these? They ok?

Yes and no. Yes for the live rooms, no for the control room: the rear wall of the control room will need a lot of acoustic treatment, so you can't have glass there. On the other hand, if you turn the control room orientation around, so it is facing that window, then you'd be fine. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your diagram, and the room is already facing that way? It's hard to tell, because there are conflicting indications. On the one hand, you have a rectangle labelled "sofa" suggesting that the room is already facing that way, but on the other hand, the room gets narrower at that end, which should not happen. The room should be narrower at the front, where the speakers are, and wider at the back, where the sofa is....

- Was thinking of Mr slim mini split for heating/cooling (above each window maybe),

I'm not familiar with "Mr. Slim", but mini-split air conditioners are fine, provided that they are sized correctly for the thermal load of each room.

not sure if I still need fresh air ducts?

Yes, absolutely! Either that, or practice holding your breath for however long a typical recording session takes... People need to breath, and studios are sealed air-tight... No ducts=no oxygen. Not good...

thats a whole area I'd need to read up more I think.

Yep! It's a huge subject, and one that is often forgotten until too late. So it is excellent that you are already thinking about it.

- any other concerns?

!) Traffic flow: Right now, the only way to handle load-in / load-out is by dragging all the instruments and equipment through the front door, through the coffee room, through the control room, through live room "A", and finally into live room "B": That's seven doors you need to go through and a long way to be dragging all that heavy stuff. It also means that anyone in the live rooms who needs a bathroom break, coffee break, smoke break, or to go answer their cell phone, has to follow the same path: Live room "B" to live room "A" to the CR to the coffee room... I would suggest re-thinking that, so you have direct paths into the live rooms, independent of the control room. Perhaps re-arrange the rooms so that there is a sort of central lobby area for the main entrance, with all the rooms branching off from there.

B) sight lines: From the control room, you have no view at all of Live Room "B", and only a small part of live room "A". I would work on fixing that...

Those are the two biggies I noticed.

- Stuart -











- Stuart -

Thanks for the reply Stuart, appreciate the input.

Soundman2020 wrote:Hi Sean. Welcome!

Please read the forum rules for posting (click here). You seem to be missing a couple of things!

Whoops. Stuff I think I've forgotten… 2 leaf walls, masonry outer leaf, 2x4 stud inner leaf with air gap (6inch?). 2 layer drywall with green glue. Budget of around £15000 (hopefully realistic!?). Hope that helps.

Soundman2020 wrote:What is left from those? Just the slabs, or some walls too? Roof?

Photos of what is there right now would help.

Theres nothing really, just rough/hard soil. Planning to put new concrete foundations down. Apologies I have no photos, I'm on tour atm not back for a couple of wks. Just imagine a field I suppose

Soundman2020 wrote: It's hard to tell, because there are conflicting indications. On the one hand, you have a rectangle labelled "sofa" suggesting that the room is already facing that way, but on the other hand, the room gets narrower at that end, which should not happen. The room should be narrower at the front, where the speakers are, and wider at the back, where the sofa is....

Sorry I think the sketch up woman was confusing things alright. Its meant to be facing out the window yes, i.e. sofa at the back of the room. Its actually all treatment at the back so the room isn't getting smaller its just going to be all treatment on the back wall. I was trying to slope the treatment just to follow the angled sliding doors (angled to stop resonances between the doors). So with that in mind is it ok do you think? Trying to keeping it simple with a rectangle shaped room, and everything symmetrical of course.

Soundman2020 wrote:Yes, absolutely! Either that, or practice holding your breath for however long a typical recording session takes... People need to breath, and studios are sealed air-tight... No ducts=no oxygen. Not good...

Im useless at holding my breath so yes need to get some ducting in! Think i'll make the roof higher so I can fit some ducting etc in the roofspace for the fresh air. Does it matter how close the supply and return are together in a room? or best to keep as far apart as poss?

Soundman2020 wrote:!) Traffic flow: Right now, the only way to handle load-in / load-out is by dragging all the instruments and equipment through the front door, through the coffee room, through the control room, through live room "A", and finally into live room "B": That's seven doors you need to go through and a long way to be dragging all that heavy stuff.

Good point thanks. I think I'll put an extra double sliding door in the main live room for load in/out. I actually should have pointed out that the room on the left (with coffee bar) would probably double up as another live space when needed. I'm rarely recording more than 2 or 3 people at a time. So the only room I can't view is the smaller room on the right, I might have to compromise there (maybe even install a camera at some stage). Cant see really how I'd make everything work view wise in this L shape otherwise.

When I get some more time I'll draw up a new sketch with some better labelling (!). Thanks for your expert opinions so far Stuart!

Sean

Whoops. Stuff I think I've forgotten… 2 leaf walls, masonry outer leaf, 2x4 stud inner leaf with air gap (6inch?). 2 layer drywall with green glue. Budget of around £15000 (hopefully realistic!?). Hope that helps.

Well, yes, that's part of it, but you are still missing the most important bit: Big blue letters, half way down the page: Rule number three...

Theres nothing really, just rough/hard soil. Planning to put new concrete foundations down. Apologies I have no photos, I'm on tour atm not back for a couple of wks. Just imagine a field I suppose

That's great! So basically you have a clean slate, a "greenfield" build, form the ground up! That's excellent. Best possible scenario.

Sorry I think the sketch up woman was confusing things alright. Its meant to be facing out the window yes, i.e. sofa at the back of the room. Its actually all treatment at the back so the room isn't getting smaller its just going to be all treatment on the back wall. I was trying to slope the treatment just to follow the angled sliding doors (angled to stop resonances between the doors). So with that in mind is it ok do you think? Trying to keeping it simple with a rectangle shaped room, and everything symmetrical of course.

Rectangular shape is fine, and so are other shapes. Personally, I'm rather partial to the RFZ design concept, and the room shapes that it produces, since the result is about the best sound you can hope for in control room. With RFZ, the room starts narrow 8and low) at the front, then widens out towards the back, or at the very least stays the same. That's also a small room, so ti will need a lot of bass trapping, deep and thick, and one of the best places for putting that is in the rear vertical corners.

Think i'll make the roof higher so I can fit some ducting etc in the roofspace for the fresh air. Does it matter how close the supply and return are together in a room? or best to keep as far apart as poss?

The idea is to create a flow path that moves air throughout the entire room, as much as possible. There are also many other factors that you 'll need to consider in your overall HVAC design: room changes per hour, flow velocity, flow rate, static pressure, fan efficiency, sensible heat load, latent heat load, insertion losses, and a whole bunch of other things. Unfortunately, it's nowhere near as easy as just putting a couple of ducts and a fan in, then screwing a split system to the wall....

Cant see really how I'd make everything work view wise in this L shape otherwise.

You could move the control room over, swapping it with the live room on the right...


- Stuart -