John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi, i've got some questions about the treatment in my dedicated recording room.
My control room is finished and tuned. Now next to it I've constructed a isolated tracking room.
It's a rectangle shaped room. 7,93 foot wide, 16,5 foot deep, 7,87 foot high
Walls are isolated 1" thick gypsum with IsoMax clips constructed to a box-in-box frame.
The floor is a floating 1,4" thick wood on 1" layer of isolation foam.
Here you can see the untreated room: There where enough tips on how to measure and treat a control room, but I can't find those for a tracking room.
Based on some reviews and pictures I made DIY Space Coupler as a cloud above the drumkit and put some 1" thick absorbers on the walls by the drumkit. To reduce the intensity of early reflections without taking energy out of the room and if I need more absorption or prevent flutter echo I can put some rockwool sheets on them.
The whole Space Coupler cloud is now 4 foot by 6.5 foot. Covering the whole kit. Still I hear a lot of fast echo's in the room when I clap my hands. How to tame them without killing the room?

And should I tame low frequenties by adding corner Super Chuck traps like I did in my control room?


Thanks for any help in the right direction before I spent a lot of time, energy and money on improper treatment.

Regards,

Jeroen Wolff
StudioWolff

I've also a thread started at GearsLutz http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-b ... -room.html

If you want to keep the room bright but still need to kill flutter echo and similar artifacts, I'd suggest using some type of diffuser. Perhaps one of John's slotted devices would do the trick, or maybe some type of tuned diffuser. How about doing a REW test in that room, and posting the results here? Also maybe post a recording of the drums with a couple of mics set up at a distance, to get plenty of room sound and not so much direct sound. Maybe a stereo pair placed about two thirds of the way down the room, facing the kit, and at head height?

You could use absorption to treat the flutter echo, but you'd probably need lots of it, and you say you want to keep the room very bright, so that might not be a good idea. For example, superchunks in all the corners might be overkill. Maybe in one corner, just to take the edge off the modal problems, but if you did all four corners that might take out too much of the highs as well. Plus, superchunks won't to anything for flutter echo!

- Stuart -

Thanks Soundman2020,

I wil take a look at the designs of the diffusers.
Also wil record the drumkit like you described and post the recording.
Only 1 SuperChunk saves space and money
I would also make some REW measurements like i did in my control room, but where to place the speakers and mic? I've got no idea...

Regards,

Jeroen

Soundman2020 wrote:.Perhaps one of John's slotted devices would do the trick, or maybe some type of tuned diffuser.

Stuart, can you please provide me a link to the designs? I couldn't find it in the recording manual.

Regards,

Jeroen

Hi, i was looking to buy diffusors and found these cheap panels. The come in sets of 4.
Auralex advised to put those on the ceiling. Is this the right way? Are those diffusors useful?

Regards,

Jeroen

Soundman2020 wrote:How about doing a REW test in that room, and posting the results here?

I have no idea where to put mic and speakers for a REW test in that room. Any suggestions?

Soundman2020 wrote:Also maybe post a recording of the drums with a couple of mics set up at a distance, to get plenty of room sound and not so much direct sound. Maybe a stereo pair placed about two thirds of the way down the room, facing the kit, and at head height?

I've made 4 recording with the room mic's on the position you described. On 2/3 of the room at ear hight.

I've made a comp from the 4 recordings of the same beat we did:

RecordingRoomTreatmentTest.mp3

First recording (beat 1-4) no treatment to the side (A) of the mic, (C) panels are there , (B) rockwool is not there.
Second recording (beat 5-8) with treatment to the side (A) of the mic, (C) panels are there , (B) rockwool is not there.
Third recording (beat 9-13) rockwool on the cloud (B), (A) panels are there, (C) panels are there
Fourth recording (beat 14-17) removed the back wall panels (C), (A) panels are there, (B) rockwool is there.

To my ears there are differences. The more treatment the tighter the kit sound. Especially noticeable on the snare. So Third Recording to my ears sounds the best.

I wander what you guys think how to treat the room….

Regards,

Jeroen ($ say "yeroon")

I've made 4 recording with the room mic's on the position you described. On 2/3 of the room at ear hight.

Yup, the differences are subtle but definitely there. I agree that #3 sounds cleanest.

However, it definitely sounds like there is a lot of modal stuff going on in that room, and the kick seems to be triggering some of it: It's hard to dissect it from the actual kid resonance, though. I'd really like to get a REW test, to try to figure this out.

I have no idea where to put mic and speakers for a REW test in that room. Any suggestions?

They key test to find out where all your modal issues are, is "diagonal corners". Place the speaker down in the floor in one corner, and the mic up near the ceiling in the diagonally opposite corner. That is guaranteed to trigger as many modes as want to be triggered, and to capture them well. So do one test like that. It doesn't really matter which corners you choose, as long as the speaker and mic are at opposite ends of the room, and in the diagonally opposite corners.

But then also do a more realistic test: set up a speaker more or less where the toms would be (take one of the toms out so you can position the speaker), and a single mic roughly in the middle between where you had your pair of mics for the recording. Point the speaker roughly down the middle of the room, towards where the mic is.

And you can do one more test, if you really want: Speaker in the same "tom" position but facing towards your throne, and mic set up roughly where your head would be while playing.

Do all of those tests at a level of about 85 dB, as measured with a hand held sound level meter, and also calibrate REW to that same level!

I wander what you guys think how to treat the room….

I'm thinking that you are going to need some bass trapping in there, but carefully done so as not to lose the brightness of the room. I'm also thinking that some more absorption and also some diffusion would be good...

But lets take a look at the REW data to see how the room is working first.

- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote: But lets take a look at the REW data to see how the room is working first.

Stuart, thanks for all the advice how to measure the room and tomorrow i make time to do it.
But still one question. Do i need to get the drum kit out of the room? I think it is better because all of the resonances..or not?

Regards,

jr00n

Do i need to get the drum kit out of the room? I think it is better because all of the resonances..or not?

Right. In fact, if you want to be really thorough, then do both: the basic test without the drums, then another with the drums, but with the speakers and mic on the exact same precise position, accurate to the 1/4". That way, you can see just what effect your drums have on the acoustics. You might be surprised to see just how much they "ring"...


- Stuart -

Stuart,

Soundman2020 wrote: In fact, if you want to be really thorough, then do both: the basic test without the drums, then another with the drums, but with the speakers and mic on the exact same precise position, accurate to the 1/4". That way, you can see just what effect your drums have on the acoustics. You might be surprised to see just how much they "ring"...
- Stuart -

Finally I did some measurements. 3 positions with and without kit.

REW file: https://copy.com/vAVTLBq2OXGVBWQV

At the SPL measurement I see a lot of low build up. A modal problem?
My idea is to make 1 corner filled with a SuperChunk of RockWool to absorb some low-end. Or should I do something else?

Where in de REW graphs can I find how 'live' the room is. How much ms decay…

I'm very curious what you think and how I should treat it more.

Regards,

Jeroen

At the SPL measurement I see a lot of low build up. A modal problem?

Definitely modal issues: take a look at the waterfall and Spectrogram graphs, and you'll see the problems clearly.

My idea is to make 1 corner filled with a SuperChunk of RockWool to absorb some low-end. Or should I do something else?

superchunks would be ideal. Start out with two superchunks, and see how it goes. You might need more than two.

Where in de REW graphs can I find how 'live' the room is. How much ms decay…

On the "RT60" button. For the mids and highs you are OK, but the lows... Hmmmm... WOW! I think you'll need more than just two superchunks.


- Stuart -