John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi folks!

I'll be back with a ton more questions later,
but right now:

What do you recommend for studio flooring?
It's for a combined mixing and recording-room.
Budget-friendly if possible.

Good for vocal, acoustic guitar and all purpose.

Details here: http://geir-music.blogspot.no/2012/09/b ... floor.html

Thanks!

The normal recommendation is bare concrete. That's about the best possible surface for a studio, acoustically. If you don't like the way that looks, or if your concrete is in bad condition, then another very good surface is laminate flooring laid directly on the concrete (but with the correct padding underneath, of course, as specified by the manufacturer).

There's nothing better than those two.

Carpet is out, of course: Carpet is terrible for studios (how many pro studios do you see with carpeted floors? ZERO!)

Floating a floor is extremely expensive when done correctly, and extremely bad when done cheaply, so that is out for most home studios. And practically never needed anyway.

Of course, if your sub-floor is not concrete, and you can't afford to have concrete poured, then the only solution is to make it as massive as possible, with multiple layers or thick, heavy wood, such as 3 or 4 layers of 3/4" plywood, then lay laminate flooring on that. In this case, you could use Green Glue between the layers, if you need good isolation.

But the key point is that your floor should be solid, hard, reflective, rigid, and have a lot of mass. As long as you can do that, then you should be OK. It should never be flimsy, soft, or have any sort of air-gap inside it it, as that would make it into a resonant system, which should be avoided at all costs.

- Stuart -

Thanks a lot Stuart!

If you look at my initial plan here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OTSlyAlXKnQ/U ... 0/Gulv.png
Details here

you can see I need to do some changes.

The odd thing about my floor is that it's a mix of concrete-slab and wood-floor.

So, my initial thought of using floating floor with high density floor-insulation, is not such a good idea according to you? Even if I change the carpet with laminate?

In my case, I don't think pouring cement on top of the wood is a practical idea.

And 3-4 layers of plywood.. That's 5,7 or 7,6cm. That's doable.
Like this: http://www.byggmax.com/no-no/byggevarer ... vsponplate ?
With laminate on top? Any kind? And the normal 3mm underlay?

I have a floor of 13,25m2.
x4 is 53m2
The plywood is 0,6 x 1,8m = 1,08m2
How much extra do you recommend? 15% ?
So, that is 53 x 1,15 / 1,08 = 56 pieces
Cost: 56 x 105nok = 5880nok (1027usd)
Hm.. doable

Will it be effective for sound-proofing and acoustically?
It will not be decoupled from outside then. Is that a problem?
(my walls are decoupled)

Green-glue: Between all the layers? Sealant or regular? Seems expensive..
(Edit: Not adhesive it seems.)

Thanks a lot!

So, my initial thought of using floating floor with high density floor-insulation, is not such a good idea according to you? Even if I change the carpet with laminate?

The problem with floating floors, is doing it right. These might help you get a better idea of some of the issues:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8135

In my case, I don't think pouring cement on top of the wood is a practical idea.

Probably not, but it might be! If your sub-floor can take the weight, then it would be a great solution.

And 3-4 layers of plywood.. That's 5,7 or 7,6cm. That's doable.

Yes, but BEFORE you do that, you must check with a qualified structural engineer to make sure that your structure can support the weight. That is extremely important!

Like this: http://www.byggmax.com/no-no/byggevarer ... vsponplate ?

I don't know, becuase when I click on that link I get a message saying "Server Error in '/' Application. - A potentially dangerous Request.Path value was detected from the client (:)." Not sure what that means...

With laminate on top?

Yup!

Any kind?

Yup! (But thicker is better, of course.)

And the normal 3mm underlay?

If that's what the manufacturer suggests, then yes.

Will it be effective for sound-proofing and acoustically?

That's more for acoustics, in the sense of not having a resonant "drum-head" floor. Do you also need a lot of isolation to whatever is below you? What is down there? Another room?

It will not be decoupled from outside then. Is that a problem?

Depends on a lot of factors, such as: how much isolation do you need? What are the conditions are you? Are there any neighbors around you (up, down, to the sides) that would be annoyed by your noise? Or that might annoy you with their noise? IF so, what type of noise are we talking about?

Green-glue: Between all the layers?

Between at least two of them, and more if you can afford it.

Sealant or regular?

The regular original "Green Glue" itself. You'll need sealant for other things while you are building, but what you put between layers of your floors, ceilings or walls is ordinary Green Glue compound.

Seems expensive..

Yep! But if you expect that you will have low-frequency problems that need isolating, then GG is a good product for that.

(Edit: Not adhesive it seems.)

Right! It is not glue, despite the name. It is a visco-elastic polymer that never hardens, and is specifically designed to act as a constrained layer damping material between layers of mass in an isolation system. It cannot be used as adhesive: that is not its purpose. But it sure can help to improve low-frequency isolation.

- Stuart -

Thanks a lot Stuart!
You've already helped me a lot.

Soundman2020 wrote:

So, my initial thought of using floating floor with high density floor-insulation, is not such a good idea according to you? Even if I change the carpet with laminate?

The problem with floating floors, is doing it right. These might help you get a better idea of some of the issues:

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f=2&t=8173
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8135

Food for thought ineed

In my case, I don't think pouring cement on top of the wood is a practical idea.

Probably not, but it might be! If your sub-floor can take the weight, then it would be a great solution.

Well, seems like 3-4 layers of plywood is the way to go for me. It's less destructive for the floor and has less weight I guess.

And 3-4 layers of plywood.. That's 5,7 or 7,6cm. That's doable.

Yes, but BEFORE you do that, you must check with a qualified structural engineer to make sure that your structure can support the weight. That is extremely important!

I'll calculate the weight and do that

Like this: http://www.byggmax.com/no-no/byggevarer ... vsponplate ?

I don't know, becuase when I click on that link I get a message saying "Server Error in '/' Application. - A potentially dangerous Request.Path value was detected from the client (:)." Not sure what that means...

Sorry, this is the correct link: http://www.byggmax.com/no-no/byggevarer ... vsponplate

Any kind [laminate]?

Yup! (But thicker is better, of course.)

Thanks!

Will it be effective for sound-proofing and acoustically?

That's more for acoustics, in the sense of not having a resonant "drum-head" floor. Do you also need a lot of isolation to whatever is below you? What is down there? Another room?

It will not be decoupled from outside then. Is that a problem?

Depends on a lot of factors, such as: how much isolation do you need? What are the conditions are you? Are there any neighbors around you (up, down, to the sides) that would be annoyed by your noise? Or that might annoy you with their noise? IF so, what type of noise are we talking about?

This is beneath. And trucks are passing by 150m way at 60-70km/h

So, right now it seems like this is the plan:

From top:

Laminate 5-10mm
Laminate underlay 3mm
MDF, 22mm, glued together on the sides ( like this)
Green glue
MDF 22mm
Green glue
MDF 22mm
???? Green glue ??
Woodfloor 24mm
Studs 2x4" and 10mm insulation
Plates, 20mm asphalt ??
Some locking shims

Two questions:
1) Under the 3leaf MDF-slab, what should I use there? I must assume the wood-floor has hight-differences of 1cm. So, I would need something like green-glue but a little less messy and more aimed towards levelling.
I could of course use nothing, but would that give poor results?
2) What should I use as underlay for my inner walls (supporting the roof)? The mdf-slab or directly on the wood-floor? Maybe with u-rubbers for the studs?

I'll have to give that concrete-slab a second thought.
Realised it might be possible to remove the wood-floor, and fill up the space with concrete.
I'll have to remove some solid-wood to see if the structure is free from the wood-floor.

Realised it might be possible to remove the wood-floor, and fill up the space with concrete.

Sounds like a good plan! If you can do that, it solves a lot of problems, right from the start.

I hope it turns out that you can!


- Stuart -

Soundman2020 wrote:

Realised it might be possible to remove the wood-floor, and fill up the space with concrete.

Sounds like a good plan! If you can do that, it solves a lot of problems, right from the start.

I hope it turns out that you can!


- Stuart -

Thanks, seems like the best solution if possible
I'll have to look up the cost, but I expect it to be less than the former option.

Concrete seems a little cold and uncomfortable for the winter.
What are my basic options regarding this?
Putting some insulation in there? Going fancy with some radiant heating? Or just putting some vinyl with good insulation in it?

Any do, or do not?

Concrete seems a little cold and uncomfortable for the winter.
What are my basic options regarding this?

Laminate floor can look very nice. Usually you put down a thin underlay on the concrete, then place the laminate flooring on top of that. Looks nicer than concrete, a bit warmer too, and still very good acoustically.

Or just putting some vinyl with good insulation in it?

Vinyl is another good option.

Any do, or do not?

Do use something that has a hard, reflective surface. Do not use anything that leaves an air space between the concrete and the finish floor. Apart from those two, there isn't much more that I can think of...


- Stuart -

New reply here:
http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 14#p124914

I don't remember how it calls, but I made in my kitchen floor like this- [SPAM DELETED BY MODERATOR] and now I am so happy about it! It is the best sollution and the best type of floor I've ever had!

I don't remember how it calls, but I made in my kitchen floor like this- [SPAM DELETED BY MODERATOR] and now I am so happy about it! It is the best sollution and the best type of floor I've ever had!

OK Mr. "Lukas75", that's it: 2 strikes of spam, and you are gone. Bye.

- Stuart -

Hello,
In my opinion, Bamboo flooring is best for studio, it is an ideal floor and much more ECO friendly different to classic hardwood and I'm also sharing with you some benefit about [SPAM REMOVED BY MODERATOR]
Easy and Simple Click Lock Installation
Low maintenance and easy to clean
Its available different [SPAM REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

[SPAM REMOVED BY MODERATOR]

In my opinion, Bamboo flooring is best for studio,

In my opinion, it isn't. In my opinion, you are a spammer, which is why you have been banned. In my opinion...