John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

I am building a studio in the UK, and have very little knowledge of construction in general.

I would appreciate any help greatly, because I am due to start move into my new house (where I am building the stereo) in 4-5 weeks.

I dont know if there are any weak points in my studio equipment (And would appreciate any advice if there are some).

My current setup.
Tascam M-15 24:8:16 desk, 8 Direct outs into the 8 audio ins on my:
Digi 001 card
Another 8 into a behringer ADA 8000, lightpiped into the digi card.
Proteus 2000
Studio Logic SL-880
Focusrite Platinum VoiceMaster Preamp
NEUTRIK BALANCED STUDIO PATCHBAY
BEHRINGER POWERPLAY HA4700 HEADPHONE AMP
Samson Studio Amplifier 170
TANNOY REVEAL NEAR FIELD MONITORS

Mics:
D112
3x Beta 57a
3x SM57
3x SM58
Grove Tubes GT-66
2xMC012
1xC1000s

The studio I am building is going to be in my garden, and will be built from scratch.

It will be 8mx4m (outside dimensions)

I know I am going to be looking at cheap alternatives for professional sound-proofing/treating equipment, and I suspect there may be some available and would like to know what they are.

I've scanned in a rough draft of my plans (I wanted to get advice from you guys before I started drawing up some proper plans).

http://www.free-collective.com/stuff/garden.jpg
http://www.free-collective.com/stuff/studio.jpg

There are a couple of issues that I'm thinking about here.
1) I am moving my shed next to my neighbours as I've gotten some advice from my planning friends and they cant see how my neighbour can object to my shed (if the noise doesn't disturb him) when he has such a shed.
2) I am thinking about using the double wall construction - as detailed at the bottom of this experiment (http://www.auralexuniversity.com/NeighborsReal.html) for the live room, and the single wall construction in the control room, as it'll need less soundproofing. Is the soundproofing going to be sufficient for the control room to not disturb anyone?
3) I am going to want to use this space as a rehearsel room as well as a studio, and although I love recording, it would be nice to have a comfortable control room, as well as my 5 piece band in the live room. I have come up with a few options.
i) we all have enough space (I think the inside dimensions would be about 3.25 by 3.5)
ii) we put the drummer and the amps in the live room, and the rest of us play headphoned in the control room (good for rehearsels, but not very personal)
iii) I lessen the control room space.
4) I am probably going to shelve the amps, so that I have (for example) a bass amp on the floor, then a guitar amp on a wooden frame (That is built around the bass amp) above it, then a keyboard amp on the floor, and another guitar amp above that.
5) Am I right in assuming that I need a double layer of plasterboard (I was going to use 8' by 4' sheets), then some mineral wool, then a gap, then mineral wool, then 8'x4' plaster board again.
6) I figured out I'd need about 600 metres of 2x4, and about 150 8'x4' plasterboard (gyprock) panels.
7) is there any merit in having roofing felt in between any of these layers, and if so where, and what kind?
I was planning on essentially putting something identical to one of my live room walls, as a roof... is this going to be okay?
9) What do I do about the floor? I was going to build a concrete base, for the building as a whole, but what do I need to then do?
10) What do I do about the doors to prevent sound leakage?
11) Weatherproofing! I was thinking about building an exterior metal skin, as it would be better (and cheaper) than soundproofing the outer gyprock layer (which I dont think I can do anyway).
What is the easiest way to weather proof it. If I go with my shell, do I need to build the studio first, then the shell, or the shell first then the studio. Practically speaking, it would be easier to build the shell first because I cant see how I would tighten bolts for the metal skin with a studio next to the outer wall.

I know this is a lot of questions, but I was hoping that people can offer advice on as many as possible.

What materials are the best for building the sound proofed walls?

It looks like I am going to be moving in about a month, so I would like to get as much of it planned before I move, as I can.

A far as cabling going, I was looking to run 2 8x snakes into the live room from the control room. The 8 returns I would use as headphone points.
I was going to run the 16 inputs into the back of a patchbay, and then patch straight into the desk. As I know nothing about the "best way" to do this I was hoping for a bit of advice here too.

A couple of other things I would like to know, is what is the correct way to wire this studio (not electrical, but audio). Do I use effect returns and sends for my focusrite preamp for example... I really dont know.

I would like to think I am a reasonably good musician, but I just dont know the best way to do a lot of things engineer/construction related.

I am very serious about this, and it is going to get built, so as much guidence to stop me building it wrong would really be appreciated.

I am hoping to use this space, to 1) rehearse in, and 2) record in. I am less worried about sound treating the room, as it's my understanding that I can do that with reflective panels etc when I record. My main concern is not annoying the neighbours when I rehearse and record.

Greetings!

1) I am moving my shed next to my neighbours as I've gotten some advice from my planning friends and they cant see how my neighbour can object to my shed (if the noise doesn't disturb him) when he has such a shed.

Talk to your neighbor anyway. Make sure he knows what you're doing, and go out of your way to show him that you're doing everything you can to keep the noise from bugging him. If he feels informed, he won't feel as threatened by it. The last thing you want is to give him the "what are you going to do about it?!" attitude.

2) I am thinking about using the double wall construction - as detailed at the bottom of this experiment (http://www.auralexuniversity.com/NeighborsReal.html) for the live room, and the single wall construction in the control room, as it'll need less soundproofing. Is the soundproofing going to be sufficient for the control room to not disturb anyone?

That depends on how loud you have your speakers when you're mixing. I don't track too loud, but I like being able to turn it up if I need to- and I want to be able to check my mixes at high volumes as well as low volumes. I personally would double-wall everything. If you don't double-wall the control room, I'd recommend you put 3 layers of drywall on all the walls and the ceiling.

3) I am going to want to use this space as a rehearsel room as well as a studio, and although I love recording, it would be nice to have a comfortable control room, as well as my 5 piece band in the live room. I have come up with a few options.
i) we all have enough space (I think the inside dimensions would be about 3.25 by 3.5)
ii) we put the drummer and the amps in the live room, and the rest of us play headphoned in the control room (good for rehearsels, but not very personal)
iii) I lessen the control room space.

I'd put a lot of thought into this one. There's a lot of things to think about here, and a lot of options for you. I'm kinda in the same spot- when I build my studio, I plan to have it double as my own band's rehearsal space. Right now I'm in my basement, and every time I record a full band, I have to have my own band tear everything down and move it out. THIS SUCKS. Design your place so that recording a full band does not require your own band to move out of the way. Either give yourself a huge tracking room (big enough for 2 bands worth of gear), set aside a decent-size drum booth aside from main tracking (so your band would practice in main tracking, and another band would put the drums in the drum room and everyone else either in main tracking or in control) or you could build the control room big enough to have your own band in there all the time. I personally would try to get option 3 to work- it'll force you to build a big tracking room, which will be easier to get sounding good.

But that all depends on how you prefer to work. What'll work for me may not be a good idea for you at all.

4) I am probably going to shelve the amps, so that I have (for example) a bass amp on the floor, then a guitar amp on a wooden frame (That is built around the bass amp) above it, then a keyboard amp on the floor, and another guitar amp above that.

Not a bad idea at all. I'd kinda make that the last thing to build tho, just in case the budget runs out.

5) Am I right in assuming that I need a double layer of plasterboard (I was going to use 8' by 4' sheets), then some mineral wool, then a gap, then mineral wool, then 8'x4' plaster board again.

I'd recommend 2 layers on each side of the double-wall, for a total of 4. You could use only one, but if you're double-walling it, and you're building close to a neighbor's property line, beef it up as much as you can. You wouldn't be paranoid to put in 3 sheets per side. It'd be better to go too far than to do all this work and STILL have your neighbor complain... If 3 is over budget, 2 will still do quite a bit for you.

7) is there any merit in having roofing felt in between any of these layers, and if so where, and what kind?

Not really. It'd do you some good on the outside as waterproofing (my architectural firm recommends using roofing paper instead of Tyvek or any of that stuff- it's cheaper, and it's super-easy to use...) but won't really do as much for soundproofing. A lot of drywall is your best bet.

I was planning on essentially putting something identical to one of my live room walls, as a roof... is this going to be okay?

Here's what you want to do with the roof:

If you'll be double-walling your live room, you'll be building an outer shell for the entire building, and a room-within-a-room for at least tracking (I'd recommend another separate room for control, but if that's out of budget, it's not so bad). You'd build up the walls, and build an inner-ceiling up off the inner wall, separate from the outer roof. I'd recommend you put 2 layers of drywall on the bottom of your roof trusses (the roof deck on top, that you'll nail shingles to, will most likely NOT COUNT as a soundproofing layer- not with all the vents that'll need to punch thru it), and then the drywall on the inner ceiling will form a double-wall above your head. This type of construction will give you about the best noise control you can get for your live room without building the thing out of concrete block. (BTW that may not be a bad idea either...)

9) What do I do about the floor? I was going to build a concrete base, for the building as a whole, but what do I need to then do?

You can float the floor if you want- that is, build up a wood floor system sitting on neoprene rubber pads, then build the inner walls off of that, and the inner ceiling above this. I don't know if you need to in your case. Here's the thing- noise control to the outside world won't be affected quite so much. Sound isolation between your control room an isolation is where you'll get the biggest gains if you float the floor. If you want to have a band playing at ear-splitting volumes in one room, and be barely able to hear them in the other, then float the floor. If you're not as concerned about it, then save yourself the money. You'll get some flanking noise from the concrete floor, but with a double-wall it won't be too terribly bad.

10) What do I do about the doors to prevent sound leakage?

Build them really heavy and make the seals around the edges as close to perfect as you can get 'em. Your doors are going to be the biggest sound leaks, not your walls. Don't skimp here- your neighbor will thank you.

11) Weatherproofing! I was thinking about building an exterior metal skin, as it would be better (and cheaper) than soundproofing the outer gyprock layer (which I dont think I can do anyway).
What is the easiest way to weather proof it. If I go with my shell, do I need to build the studio first, then the shell, or the shell first then the studio. Practically speaking, it would be easier to build the shell first because I cant see how I would tighten bolts for the metal skin with a studio next to the outer wall.

My advice here is to build an outer shell first, then put the studio rooms inside it. Whether it be out of metal, wood frame with weatherproof siding, or whatever, Build it up and then ignore the outer sheathing and paneling as far as acoustics go. Give yourself a waterproof layer outside, and then on the inside of the shell put 2 layers of drywall up. Then you can build the inner walls without worrying about them getting wet.

What materials are the best for building the sound proofed walls?

Wood studs with drywall. Check out the sticky post "Complete Section".

Other folks here will be able to help you out with the wiring much more than I. Hope this helps!

1) Yes I had fully intended to talk to all of my neighbours - although some are apparently quite noisy (which suits me). I plan on telling them that it will be my office for when I work from home, and that I will probably practice my guitar in it, so if they can hear me, I would appreciate them letting me know.

2) That's a very interesting point about having the ability to monitor at high volume on occasion, I will look into the price differences because I dont think I'll be saving much by going single wall in the control room.

3) Unfortunately, it's not a case of what would work, it's a case of planning regulations. I dont have much money, but I would be happy to wait until I could pay for a bigger building - it's just a question of planning regulations.

I dont think I'll have the opportunity to create a seperate drum room - I will put the drums in the live room and record them seperately. I need to think about this though, because having a seperate drum room is (obviously) a huge advantage.

4) yes of course. Shelving the amps is not a lot of money at all.

5) I didn't realise that three were much more of an advantage to two, but I will bear that in mind.

QUESTION: is plywood better than plasterboard (gyprock)? I dont know the prices of each, but I think I could get the plywood pretty cheap, so I would be interested to know the differences in effectiveness.

6) Whilst asking for quotes for my materials, I have been laughed at when saying I need 150 8'x4' sheets of plasterboard, and 600m of 2x4 - have I seriously miscounted, or are these builders a little naive about the building needs of a soundproof room (I imagine I am missing something, as I am not a builder).

7) okay, I just heard a rumour that this was effective - but it may well have been just that...a rumour

interestingly I am considering putting a pre-fab concrete building on the outside of my studio, although I would probably use a similar design to my walls on my ceiling. I was under the understanding that concrete transmits sound VERY well?

9) fantastic info - I do not need to worry about control room/live room seperation so much (as long as it's not deafening in the control room, which of course it wont be).

10) perhaps I will build a diagonal wall across the door, and put another door in (to try and minimise the sound leakage?

11) Yeah my Dad (who kindly offering to help with this studio and although being a director at IBM is also a fantastic builder) suggested doing the outside first... after all, how do you tighten bolts on a metal/concrete skin with the centre building already done. I can see the roof being tough though?

Thank you very much for your help - I would have replied earlier, but I've been a few hundred miles picking up my huge desk....


I can imagine that when I get to the stage of laying cable things are going to get tough...I am terrified of laying cable that I cant easily get too and for it to not work, so I can see myself putting the desk etc in (or some kind of testing small testing device) and testing each connection before I fix it.

Running cable directly through the control room/live room wall seems far better for soundproofing (from neighbours) than running it through the outer walls?

Does anyone know where I can get stage boxes from, so I can wire them the way I want them (with the length of multicore that I need). I dont want to have to buy more than I need.

This is going to be one hell of a learning curve for a guitar/bass player and web designer....

Incidently, I am looking to move in 4 weeks (not much time at all), and want to get this studio up as soon as humanly possible (without compromsing building quality)

You can get stage/wall boxes from Studiospares. Their mail order system is really good, you can order online and I've found their prices to be fairly competitive.

http://www.studiospares.com/default.asp

Just as a matter of interest, whereabouts in the UK are you

Colin

Currently in Reading, moving to Swindon.

If anyone in the UK wants to swap recording time (when the studio is built) for building time (I am sure there is going to be jobs from lugging concrete from the front of the house to the garden - to helping wire the building) then feel free to let me know.

I came up with at least 125 sheets of 8'x4' gypsum for 4 layers (2 per leaf), and that's not figuring any waste; it's more likely one of two things causing the snickers from local builders - one, they're as unaware of sound isolation methods as general builders are in the rest of the world, and two - they've likely bought gypsum in the UK lately and are wondering which bank you've robbed... From what I've gotten from other UK members, the price of gypsum wallboard is roughly 5 TIMES as much in the UK as it is here on the west coast USA - ouch...

Plywood, however, is NOT the best choice for isolation - gypsum works about half again as good. You can use waterproof plywood for an outer layer, but for any areas that won't get wet the gypsum does a much better job of isolation.

Keep in mind that Auralex is in the business of selling you products, specifically their RC-8 and Sheet Block - in a true double framed wall, there is little if any advantage to using resilient channel (the separate frames provide the isolation between wall leaves) and even in the UK an extra layer of gypsum is less expensive and at least as useful as mass loaded vinyl. I'm not saying their wall example wouldn'd do what they claim, I just think there are less expensive ways of getting there. I also would NOT build both sides of a wall with the same mass leaves, since it puts resonances at nearly the same frequency (the RC might change that a little) - instead, I'd use two layers of 5/8 on one side and a layer of 1/2 and 5/8 on the other, and I would place the studs of one frame so they are between the opposite wall's studs (not lined up with each other) - this stiffens the wall on one side where it is most likely to want to vibrate from maximum movement of the leaf on the OTHER side of the wall - this would tend to help low frequency performance probably more than high frequency performance.

If you'll be doing a slab with perimeter footings cast in, you might want to look into concrete block outer walls - it's possible that could save you money and provide the main mass for your outside walls - just a thought... Steve