John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi,

I'm about to order my plugs for my wall plates and im in somewhat of a dilemma.

From what I've seen on this forum, usually theres a wall box in the live room which ends up as cables in the control room. which are connected directly to the audio equipment.

I was wondering if I could use 2 identical wall plates. One in the live room and one in the control room.
And i.e. connect an XLR cable from the control room wall box towards a mic preamp, instead of the live room wall box being connected directly to a microphone preamp or patch bay in the control room.

To me this seems more tidy, especially from the moment that my equipment will keep evolving in the future.
Though I'm worried about signal degradation from all the connection points..

This is the only thing keeping me from ordering the plugs and continuing with my work.

Looking forward to your answers.
Cheers,

Vakis

hello?...

To be honest, the normal way of doing it is to take all the signals to a path panel in the CR, from where you can distribute them and re-arrange them as needed.

Don't worry about the extra connections: good quality cables and good quality patch bays / connectors won't degrade your signal. You should see some of the signal paths I have to deal with in high end post-production facilities! Multiple patch bays, in several different rooms, spread across the facility...


- Stuart -

You've convinced me Stuart,
I'll make a patch bay setup then!

Do you have any advice on the best organisational ways to do this?

Also what type of patch bay you suggest?

I've posted a reply on my other thread as well, but let's continue here, as the title seems more suitable

Any other suggestions on the subject of a patch bay?
-Do I get a patch bay that supports analog and digital signals?
-What type of patchbay do you suggest and why
-Also is one patchbay rack enough?
-What seems to be the "status quo" here in cable management?

Cheers!

Geia sou vakis

I had the same dilemma, and almost the same requirement as you.
I think it'll depend on how much outboard you are planning to own.
As for me, I will only deal with external preamp rack, EQ/dynamics/effetcs will be entirely on the computer.
So I decided to have a box in the live room, and more unusually a box in the control room too !
Take care to the male/female order chain for your cabling, that means that for a microphone connection, you'll have a female plug in the live room box, and a MALE plug in the control room, else you'll finish with bastard male/male XLR cable.

Now when I want to change the cabling plan, it's just a matter of switching cables in the control room box. Works very well, and you'll actually count one connection LESS than with a patchbay !


Of course all this is irrelevant if you are planning to patch outboard other than preamplifiers !

Good luck
-fx

Geia sou file fx!

Well basically this was my initial thought i.e. Female XLR(Live Room)--->Male XLR(Control Room)
And everything being connected to the mic preamps & audio interface.

My main "important" equipment that I will mostly be using is:
-RME FIREFACE 400 AUDIO CARD
-FOCUSRITE ISA 828 PREAMPS
-FOCUSRITE LIQUID CHANNEL PREAMP
-FOCUSRITE VOICEMASTER PRO PREAMP


I also have a few other racks like outboard effects,compressor, guitar preamps and stuff like that and a Yamaha 01v digital console.

The concept without a patchbay is that it's simple. Everything is on the wall box.

The patchbay though seems to offer very easy connectivity to equipment, that I would possibly not use otherwise.
I.e. I use plug-ins mostly but If it will be hassle free and "easy", I think I will experiment more with outboard gear If I want to.

The only problem is, I don't have a clue on what to connect where.. Do I connect all my preamps on the Outputs ontop and all the inputs of my audio interface exactly below them so the connect directly with out bantams?

This is what I need to clarify now basically, as I've made the decision to go with a patchbay, cause as an audio gear junkie,
I will be adding more equipment definitely

I let the pros here to answer !
Me I didn't want patch bay system because :

- It's expensive, bloody expensive it you want top notch quality !
- It's complicated
- As I'm a DIY fanatic, I'll end to build everything that I can get the schematics of, so with such a boring job connecting all together (without patchbay), it'll force me to restrict !!! (and only with the preamp, I've a lot of job planned, tube preamp, NEVE preamp, API preamp ...)

Good luck !
-fx

Wow that's a lot of work

Btw If at any time interested I've found this shop http://home.flash.net/~motodata/patchbays/ttbantam.html
They sell at good prices I think, and they also have used patchbays. From what I've read the ADC patchbays are "immortal"
I'll find out soon..

Good luck to you too!

Vakis

Anyone knows a good thread for patchbays?
I still have not understood how am I to connect everything, besides my research.

The simplest patch bay setup I can think of is:

-A full normaled patchbay. (Patch cable disrupts signal from top jack to bottom jack)

-The Wall Box in the live room will be directly connected to the outputs of the patchbay. (Top part of patchbay)

-The wall box will be directly connected to the inputs of Microphone preamps (Bottom part of patchbay)

-The outputs of the preamps will be connected to the next section of outputs on the patch bay (Top)

-The inputs of the audio interface will be below the outputs of the mic preamps (Bottom)


It could possibly be organised better, but this is my thought on the subject. I'm pretty clueless on the organisation on patchbays,
so i'd appreciate any comments.
Cheers,

Vakis

"-The Wall Box in the live room will be directly connected to the outputs of the patchbay. (Top part of patchbay)

-The wall box will be directly connected to the inputs of Microphone preamps (Bottom part of patchbay)"

Hmm, thats sounds backwards to me.

Also, Could you not have the pre-amps as the "break" in the chain?
Do you use a pre-amp on very channel of recording? ie drums?
I would normalise the live room mic inputs thru the patchbay to the DAW or tape machine inputs.
Then if you want to put a compressor or preamp in line use a patch cable(2).

...now I'm confussed

awesome diagram!!!

You also have to be careful with phantom power...unplugging and repatching with live 48volts DC.

you may find some relative info here

http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/Titles/Acoustics4.htm

Thanks to u both, I'll research this a bit more and since it's 2 am here, I'm off to bed!

Cheers!

Tie Lines, Patch bays, Mic Pre's, ah yes, the topic of controversy is fun, isn't it!

There are several ways you can go about this, but it also depends on your setup, layout, etc.

Some old consoles have phantom power on at ALL times. I'll save this topic for another day.

But from what it sounds like here, your main question is the best way to minimize your connections, costs, wire lengths, etc to achieve the best way to do this.

Question: Do you have a console w/ mic pre's and do you ever use the consoles mic pre's?

If you do, you do a couple things.
One, hardwire some of your wall plate connectors directly to the console mic inputs.
Two, bring them all up to a patchbay. If you're concerned about phantom power, you can use an XLR patchbay instead of a TT or 1/4" patchbay. This will keep from shorting out the connections.

I assume you probably use your mic pre's in a pretty consistent matter. Such as drums, or guitars, etc. You can set up dedicated connectors on your wall plates that go directly to those mic pre's, eliminating any connections or patches in between.

(I have more, but gotta run. I'll try and repost more later...) This is a start...