Dont Get Caught Without Permit

How thick should my walls be, should I float my floors (and if so, how), why is two leaf mass-air-mass design important, etc.

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Jai
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:14 am
Location: Dallas, Texas
Contact:

Dont Get Caught Without Permit

Post by Jai »

Hey All,

Been a while since I've posted any updates. So i thought I would give a heads up on a product i was forced to find....real quick.

:shock:

We have built a commercial facility in an industrial warehouse in Dallas texas. here, there is code that calls for metal studs only. Not wood. But metal. well, I only have worked with wood studs over my career. Got this client that wants me to build a studio, tech them how to engineer,. and basically set them up in business. Kewl. Good money, etc, etc, etc.

But, they wanted to save money in the building process and since i have never spec'ed with metal studs or even screwed one in I told them they would have to get another person to take my designs and spec out the load bearing etc of the metal.

They were not having that. so they signed a waiver that they wanted me to use wood studs and not pull permits. Ok, most of us have done this a time or two. no big deal just dont get caught, right, right??? :roll: NOT!!!!

Anyway, we used the wood, built leaf one, leaf two (Turned out great thanks to Kase and few here, thanks) have painted, put up fabric, built bass traps, put in final electric stuff, lights, plugs, dimmers, basically minus the doors the studio is done.

The landlord found out after all this that our electricity was on the suite next doors service. HA HJA HA :D funny I thought. So they hired an electrician to split the two units and request a new meter base and meter. (By the way in case you didn't know, this requires a permit) No big deal, talked with the electrician he said they wont come inside. just would look at the new meter base. :shock: but of coarse as all of us have seen building our studios, nothing goes as expected or hoped for. This is the music business. It is all upside down and twisted right. Right.

Anyway, the inspecter came in alright, right in the middle of us putting the covers on the panels. Ha we were a bit shoked.

Now, the cool thing is we did wire to code. everything was good as far as code but no Master electrician anywhere around and no permit. OK so we thought kewl we will get fined have to hire a master electrician to pull permit and go over it all to certify it. NOT !!!!!

The electrical inspector was cool :D he said need a permit. But when he was laughing at us to his buddys at the office (Permit office) and his buddys are the mechanical, and structual inspector, they didnt find the story to funny.

So now we have the stuctual inspector at our door. Cus of course the electrical inspector told him how funny it was that we used wood studs and floated our floor on wood studs. He did not find it too funny.

They red tagged our ass real real fast. said all had to come down. NO combustable matirial. NONE!!!! :evil:

Now, my happy to not pull permits client is not too happy. actually at this point kinda, ok he is, throwing tools everywhere. Remember, we are done except doors. Pulled off building the entire studio in less than three weeks. We ran 8 man crew 16 hrs a day. Everybody was so happy that all we had to do was doors.

Well, I talked with the permit department at length over the next week, tried to get special permits, etc. no way. We were about to rip it all out and redo with metal studs. But, damn, I still do not know how to engineer metal studs into a design. So, I thought there has to be a solution.

What if we paint or coat the wood with a cemical that can give us a fire rating of Class A. Is there such a product? Will they accept it? :D

Yup !!!!!

-FIRE POLY FP 75-1

by a company (In the town I built the studio) called:
Flame Safe Products

All you have to do is coat the wood with it three times and it has the same rating as metal studs.

But, my studio was done. The studs are covered and rocked, and painted, and fabric, etc. But wait.......dramatic pause.........

The thing that really worked to my advantage:

I built my floating floor and inner leaf with a 15 inch air gap between studs. Had some other designers say that was over kill in the beginning, but I really wanted sound Isolation from my neighbors. plus my ceiling of inner leaf wzs more than 24 inches away from outter leaf. :D wow, I can get a body inside the walls with a bug sprayer full of this cemical and treat everything. But damn that means I want get any cemical on the side of the studs with the sheet rock. Called the company to get specs and a way around this. Found out if you have a layer of 5/8" sheet rock next to the stud that actually gives it a class A rating. Well, shit. I have two layers of 5/8" rock on each leaf. :D We are good.

Moral to this long ass story. Get permits. Dont listen to clients, and never give up. Building a studio is not easy, cheap, or fast. It is hard work that will make you want to cry at some point in the building process.

I did find out that this cemical application is good across the country. If you want to use wood studs you can. and it only costs $125.00 for five gallons. I have two gallons left over. so it's not an expensive process.

i still have to build studio B over the next few weeks. Since I still do not know how to spec metal studs, we will be using this cemical for that studio as well. The company says its best to build the frame then spray this on before anything else goes on.

Plus I found out if you use wood studs, in Texas atleast, you can wire electric like a house. No conduit, plastic J boxes, and romex only. This will save a few grand in studio B for me.

Sorry so long a post. But I thought a good example of what not to do and what it takes to recover. Hope this helps atleast one of you.

Jai
www.themixstudio.com
"Love the Music in Yourself,
Not Yourself in the Music."
knightfly
Senior Member
Posts: 6976
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:11 am
Location: West Coast, USA

Post by knightfly »

Jai, thank you VERY much for sharing that - we ALL need a wake-up from time to time about the reality of dealing with the bureaucracy -

BTW, I watch every post here whether I "butt in" or not - Kase is one of our members that I rarely feel needs anything added (or changed), so please don't think I was ignoring you; not gonna happen.

I too am a bit shy on info regarding steel construction, just ordered a book on it yesterday and it should be here in about a week. I'll let you know after I've had a chance to check it out whether it's worth the $$ -

Do the people who have your "magic spray" have a site you could link to? If so, it would be a great addition to our Building Materials forum.

Again, thanks for your story... Steve
Jai
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:14 am
Location: Dallas, Texas
Contact:

permits

Post by Jai »

Hey Steve,

NO NO NO dont take me wrong. When I thanked everyone there was no diss towards you. I fully understand where you are and whats going on. I have seen you step when needed for a helping hand. I dont mind who chimes in or not. Everytime I come I get the answers I need very fast. i have turned soooo many people on to this site. You all rock. Thank You!!!

I will find out if they have a link or online. If not I can at least post a phone number. I will find it this afternoon and post here, as well as on the building matieral side of this site.

As always much thanks to all for helping me build a final studio in under three weeks. I will post pixs as soon as they come back.

jai
www.themixstudio.com
"Love the Music in Yourself,
Not Yourself in the Music."
dymaxian
Senior Member
Posts: 357
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:21 am
Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Post by dymaxian »

Wow. Good story. There's a lot of people who need to read stuff like this. I think Rod will (or did) have the same expression on his face when this thread title comes up...

"oh dear god please NO..."

I work as an architectural draftsman by day. We get a lot of people trying to bend rules on us, in hopes they can get away with stuff. They look at building codes as a dodge, as something they work against when building what they want to build.

When these people try to convince you to break the rules like that, just walk away. It's not worth the problems that will come down the road, and they almost always will. Building inspectors are trained to find stuff like this. You played it smart by getting a waiver there, tho- at least the owner can't blame you for his gamble.

And I'm glad you found a work-around... you got lucky.

Kase
www.minemusic.net
"to hell with the CD sales- download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
Kase
www.minemusic.net

"to hell with the CD sales! Download the MP3s and come to the shows!"
AndrewMc
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 8:55 am
Location: New Orleans, USA

Post by AndrewMc »

Similar type story here. Had a dumpster out front of the house for dirt while having some landscaping done on the garden - I thought I would take opportunity of the dumpster and throw away a bunch of drywall scraps from the studio project. Bad idea - an inspector happened to be driving by and looked in the dumpster, came in the back garden and went into the studio building (without permission) and then put up a stop work order.

To be fair - all the people at the building permit office have been very helpful and nice, but talk about being wrapped in red tape :evil:

I got the permit & had to go in front of the board of appeals to get a variance on the framing permit & inspection (room with microphones all taped) - they gave me that & I have to have electrical, plumbing & mechanical (HVAC) inspected and submitted by a licensed contractor. Had the electrical inspector over - he didn't look at much and said from what he could see everything looked like a good job (relief!) - so that is ok, just have to get the other trades to file & inspect.

It's a major pain in the ass - a lot of stress - after spending well over a year building the studio - the thought of having to tear stuff out gave me visions of the wako siege. My advice to anybody starting on construction is to get a permit at the start, or if not keep your fingers crossed.
Andrew McMaster
Aaronw
Moderator
Posts: 1771
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 3:06 am
Location: Music City
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Post by Aaronw »

My fingers are crossed. :?

As far as metal stud work...I had never worked w/ them either until I started my construction. And I'll tell you what, It's the easiest stuff to work with. Next time I build another studio, I'm going this route again.

The only tools really needed for metal is a pair of tin snips (for 20-25 guage steel), but if your going for load bearing structural steel (18-16 guage) you'll need a chop saw.

Fortunately I have some friends that work w/ metal studs, so they have taught me quite a bit about working w/ steel studs. Problem now is, the cost of building materials has sky rocketed the last 6 months, no thanks to China for buying all the material and causing a shortage. The old story of supply and demand.

Aaron
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