"Mine is bigger than yours, so there!"

[Soundman2020]

Interesting if somewhat condescending and rather depressing article on sub-woofers:

http://www.recordproducer.com/?a=160&subscriber=1

Some of the comments below the article are right on! (Start from the bottom and work up: they are in reverse order)


- Stuart -

[John Sayers]

he sure ruffled a few feathers didn't he.

I happen to agree with him in many ways especially about the advantages of soffit mounting speakers.

Back in my University lecturer days I was responsible for the design if the new TV/Audio facilities and I specified soffit mounting the speakers. http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/CSU.htm They had the Tannoy Mini reds IIRC 12" dual concentric. The technical staff who had purchased them a few years earlier were well versed in their performance and were very interested in the new fangled mounting.

When the time came to fire them up I turned the power amp up to full and they just blasted into the room - the techs faces dropped with amazement. Surely these couldn't be the same speaker they'd worked with for years. They were tighter, smoother, the low end was clear and defined and went all the way down. It was a total eye-opener for them, or ear-opener to be precise.

Sure - many great albums have been mixed on NS10s, I've used them myself, but always in conjunction with a set of large diaphram speakers soffit mounted so I can get a true low end response. The NS10s and all the new the small speaker systems are good for mixing etc but I still reckon you need a big system to truly get a good low end response and it doesn't have top be expensive speakers either. One studio I worked in (and won awards out of) had Yamaha NS1000's soffit mounted. They were the big daddy to the NS10s and had a 12" woofer, a mid range speaker and the NS10 tweeter.



When I worked at Music Farm I had the UREI 813s with dual concentric 15" and a 15" sub all in one speaker soffit mounted. Again - great reference for the low end response.

people often forget that the majority of the energy in a music track is below 100hz yet the Yamaha NS10s roll off at 100hz.
As I said , great for balance, but lousy for response.

[Soundman2020]

I have no doubt he's right! I've heard some pretty damn decent sounding large speakers in good rooms too, and they sound awesome, all right. It's just depressing for those of us who don't have those "three cheque books" (as he puts it), and can barely manage to scrounge together half of one! Are we really that badly out of luck with a pair of Adam A7's and a Sub-8, as he makes out? Like we are all hobbling around on broken roller skates while he zooms off in his Lamborghini? I know its not the same ball park, but refuse to believe that we are as badly screwed with our home studios and small speakers, as he seems to be saying. (Of course, the blatant hype for his own company was a bit off-putting as well...)

Anyway, I got the impression he was kind of hinting at the idea of soffit-mounting a stereo pair of subs, too. Does that make any sense? I mean, would it really make a huge difference to my room if I were to keep even the low end in stereo, with a pair of subs, mounting one Sub-8 below each A7, at the bottom of the respective soffits? I'm not sure that's what he was hinting at, but it did occur to me.

Would that make any worthwhile difference, John? Or should I just stick with a single Sub-8 centered between my feet? If it would work, then I'm all for it, and I'd blow the extra dollars to do it, but I'm not at all convinced that it would do anything useful.

- Stuart -

[John Sayers]

I think the fault lies with the speaker manufacturers in that they all make these small speakers with subs and no one makes 12" woofers in big boxes that are as cheap. like I said - the Yamaha NS1000 were not expensive speakers but they served their purpose of delivering below 100hz from a single point source.

It's probably got to do with shipping from China costs.

[valentin]

try out the JBL lsr6332

very nice pasive speaker and with a front port

specs are hard to beat and sound very good i have a pair
and not so expensive

[John Sayers]

Yes - Jamie has those JBLs in his studio - he loves them - he also has the sub.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/Pages/cerniglia.htm

[valentin]

Nice work John



their is also a good example of these at Newell book studio design

for the JBL LSR achievements

And in the his book Loudspeakers for studio reproduction a very extensive article on why size matters.

[valentin]

From what i have heard

JBL will soon have a 15" + horn studio monitor (back to basics)

it will not be cheap but probably will be Worth every penny

[John Sayers]

Yeah , I believe size matters.

I'm from the idea that if you are playing in a loud band and some one is recording you, you would expect them to play back what they recorded as loud as you played it!

In a studio with full size monitors and gallons of power you create an environment where the band plays full bore - and the control room is full bore - and they lock.

loudness is a buzz.

[jbassino]

Nice article, tho I still believe most top records were made on not exactly perfect studios with correct treatment. I can bet money that if you pick a couple of classic recording studios in LA for example, they wont be as near to flat response at all. But engineers managed to get used to how the room sounded, and they of course had talent.

I dont know why, but sometimes people has gotten some of the "audiophile" attitude but towards studio construction, trying to get the most perfect flat room EVER... even to 25 hz . its like those $1,000 power cables mentality.
We should build good studios, not get crazy about it either, and make good music.

PD: Stuart, dont get crazy about it

Cheers

[Soundman2020]

PD: Stuart, dont get crazy about it

Yup! You sure can bet I won't be using US$ 1,000 power cables! And there won't be any 5,000 watt 50 inch sub-woofers in my room either, no matter how good they sound. (If I were to put one of those in, there wouldn't be any space left for me! My room is really small....)

- Stuart -