John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey All,

Been posting in the construction side. Kase has been a huge help getting my construction needs accomplished. Thanks!!!!! Now its time to move on the final design and treatments.

This is only the first draft, I am looking for ideas or pitfalls to avoid. John I know you do not like getting to the tracking room through control room, But bands will load in at the back door straight to the tracking room. I couldn't come up with a better idea....have any?

All walls on inner leaf of system will be 1/2" plywood over wood studs, layer 5/8" drywall, then 1/2" drywall. Take a look at my layouts for treatments after that.

i have tried and tried to post my pix on the site but can not. But you can go to www.themixstudio.com/design.html and take a look. John or anybody if you can copy and paste a copy of the designs here it would be great. Then tell me what an idiot i am and how to do it myself. HA HA

Thanks in advance for all the great help. I look forward to all the responses.

Jai
www.themixstudio.com

Pic

Not sure why you couldn't attach it.

This is the other one

Jai - this is one big project mate - my first off reaction is - ah at last people are learning - well done. The problem I see is that you have squeezed all the studios into one area creating isolation problems. What if you swapped the studioB with the offices with the record label (preferably the studio managers office) in between to separate them. I would definitely consider a 5:1 surround control room and for a facility of this size I'd look at a larger tracking room as you have the space, that's a pretty big lounge area.

cheers
john

Thanks for the reply John. I agree with you about the lounge. And my clients really do not use my current lounge too much now. The problem is that freakin restroom. It is already there. 21 feet from the front wall and 42 feet from the back wall. I guess I could move the kitchen to the other side of the restroom. That would open up another 8 feet for tracking room and cut the lounge down to about 12 x 17 feet. A more usable space.

My problem with moving the studio B upfront is this:
By putting it by the control A, I can tuck the ISO Booth of B next to the control room where I do not need any access except from control B. If I put an office there how will I get in and out of the office? I wish I had more space for a hallway but giving up the 4 feet it requires would either give me a very small office or a much smaller Control A than i want. plus I have the wall going up the middle of the building already so i only needed to make three 10 foot walls and add doors to be done with the offices. LAZYNESS I guess.

But, Saying all that was only reasons to get where I am today with the design, not excusses. I am going to take a look at moving stuff around today. If you have any Ideas of how to better use the space please post a sketch.

jai
www.themixstudio.com

sorry forgat to add a few things.

It is a 5.1 room. I didnt draw it in, but I will come off each side wall with a sofit right at 8 feet high to sofit mount my M&K2310P monitors. I have drawn it on my paper, yes I prefer graph paper still, but didn't transfer it to the CAD program. I will get that update on tonight.

and a question? why preferable put the studio manager between the two studios? is it a personal reason or ??????

jai
www.themixstudio.com

Jai

If that bathroom is already there, then you're on the right track with keeping the kitchen nearby- the closer all the plumbing stuff is, the less work the plumber will have to do. They'd have to tear up a bunch of the floor if you wanted it moved too far away.

If the bathroom can't be moved, try to cluster the offices around it, near the middle of the plan. I'd move all the office stuff down the wall so that there's a big space near the front of the building, and a big space near the back. I'm assuming that separating the recording/control rooms into "group A" at one end and "group B" at the other won't be a bad thing...

The one and only problem I can see here is that if you have someone recording in the front studio who doesn't want to be watched. Just gotta make sure that the reclusive chaps are in the back studio.

Of course, if they can't play when they're being watched, they have a whole new world of problems once they start playing live.

If you want, send me the room sizes you need for the offices and tracking rooms, and I'll see if I can't lay something out for you. John will be better at the precise shapes of control rooms, but I'll throw my hat in for the overall design.

Kase
www.minemusic.net

Hey All,

Here is the new layout. I think this will work out great. Any Ideas or comments???? John, how is the treatment looking? any idea pitfalls to avoid. I will do a ceiling 3d today for you to look at as well.

I still have no idea how to bring HVAC supply and return into any of the studio rooms. any help would be great. My partners are wanting to break ground tomorrow so i am on a deadline now. SORRY

Still having trouble uploading pix to site. I am following all directions and file type rules//???????



So, they will be at www.themixstudio.com/designupdate.html
anyone wanting to post these here for me ??? I am going to spend time figuring this out ofter sessions today. Sorry

jai
www.themixstudio.com

O.K. so maybe I have figured this thing out. Disregard my last post about where to see pix. I think they are here now.

jai
www.themixstudio.com

Jai

First thing about HVAC is you're going to need someplace to put it. Most of the time the HVAC room or closet is built in before hand, like the bathrooms, so since you're not showing it I'm assuming that there's a roof-top or outside heating unit of some sort. Either that your you're using electric wall heaters to heat up the whole place, which I strongly recommend against! Mainly because heating a place up isn't as much of a pain as keeping it cool in the summer... Electrical heat won't move air around, so it'll get all kinds of stuffy if you do that. But my point is, make sure you know where the heating units are at. If you've gotta go back and carve a spot out for them, it could really mess up your layout.

Anyway, I've been looking back thru the posts and I can't find anywhere that you told us what the existing ceiling height is. There's one spot where you talk about 10' high walls; is that it? If you're going to be building a false ceiling system, you might be able to run heating ducts thru/between the joists for that. If you have enough ceiling height (you'd need more than 10' for this) you can just stand the ducts up on the internal ceiling system. I'm not sure if laying the ductwork across the top of that ceiling system would hurt your sound isolation. If there isn't enough ceiling height, you may want to try using trusses for the ceiling instead of solid joists or wood I-joists... there may be just enough room to scoot the heating ducts thru them.

As far as the new layout goes, that's what I was talking about- looks like there's plenty of room to get between the bathroom and the offices across from it. And now someone in studio B is all the way across the space from studio A. You may want to think about opening up the Kitchen area a little bit - there's no real reason that needs to be a completely enclosed room, unless someone is microwaving chinese take-out and filling the whole building with the scent of lo mein noodles or something.

You're on the right track!

Kase
www.minemusic.net

Thanks Kase,

HVAC Unit is right above lounge area sitting about 1' above grid ceiling. This was another reason I was having probs with the design and moving studio B to the front of the building. Main reason studio B is only 9'5" deep. I had no room to go back any further.

Ceiling height is 13'7" in the clear to the trusses. above the trusses goes another 3' to the tin with tar on top roof. I plan on drywalling (1/2" then 5/8") directly on the trusses in the areas around the two studios. Making two seperate enclosed boxes, then starting my floating floar with walls.

As far as HVAC, I have plenty of room within the metal truss to take pipes anywhere in the building with no prob. My question really lies with how, where do I poke this big ol' hole in my ceiling to put a supply vent and return vent. When i built my last room this is where all my sound proofing went out the door. actually it went out the hole that was attached to my a/c box.

Floating floar. I have seen many ways of floating the floor. The most commen that I have seen for commercial build out has been a 2x6 system with 2x6 on its side. Yes that leaves a 5 1/2" cavity that has to be filled with rockwool. In basement designs where ceiling height is almost non existant I have seen the 2x4 flat. making it easy to fill with just 703 2". I guess I always thought by the 2x4 being flat you are compramissing flex. I have been affraid basically I would be making a springy diving board. I would much rather use a 2x4 flat for three reasons: one, it is a whole heck of a lot cheaper than 2x6. two, its a hell of a lot cheaper only having to put in one layer of 703 2" in between flat 2x4. and three: its a heck of a lot easier to not to have to build step/ramp up to door. anybody else here have any comments or experience in this????? I am looking hard for ways to save time and money here?????

This buildout is of nessesity not want. I just lost my money partner in my last building. something about the industry going to hell in a handbasket and production budgets dropping to low to keep making good money. ........but I thought this was about the love of music??? maybe thats why he is driving a new escalade and Im begging my wife to spend the vacation money !!!! Ha Ha Sorry lost my head there for a moment.

So, I am feeling that the new design is a go? anybody have anything else in mind? does it all look atleast doable and cost effective? I will start at 8 am with my first phase: Tear Out. the building has a false ceiling running the entire building at 8'. not bad for lounge and offices, but for the studios it has to come down. Anybosy want to buy what looks like a brand new ceiling?

I'll post pix tonight of the start of this hopefully very short project. HA HA HA. Did I mention I have sessions booked in the space in less than a month?

jai
www.themixstudio.com

I'll take a closer look at the layout of the rooms themselves later on- short on time right now.

About the HVAC- my advice would be find an HVAC guy who has worked on sound-control systems before. The guys on the board here can give advice on some of the finer details, but in the end having a guy who knows what he's doing out there putting it together is your best bet. Like you mentioned before, the HVAC can make all your other sound-control measures worthless if it's done wrong or sloppy. And this is a pretty big HVAC system we're talking about, by the sound of it. Don't cut this corner on us! You have the potential for an awesome space!

Another thing about the HVAC- if it's that close to studio B, you might want to sheathe both sides of the walls nearby, just to put a 2-leaf wall system between the studio and the HVAC unit.

About the floor- If you're spacing the neoprene pads at 24", then your floor only has a 36" span. If you were using 1x4 under the plywood, then MAYBE it'd deflect a little bit, but a 2x4 laid flat will go 24" without problems. The plywood deck all on it's own can span that. If you're worried about it, build yourself a little platform, 24"x24", just like the floor you'll be floating. Put a neoprene pad in each corner, and then jump up on it. If it deflects too much, then turn the 2x4s on their sides and build it that way. IMHO there's no reason you'd need to use 2x6s on end for a floating floor that's got neoprene pads supporting it at 24" centers.

For 36" centers, 2x4s on their ends may serve you better. Again, you can build a little test platform and try it out.

If you're looking to cut costs in the floor system, and the 2x4s laid flat will work for you, then you should be able to build the floor out of 2x2 framing. It's the depth of the framing member that determines it's strength, and a 2x2 is just as deep as a 2x4 laid flat. Again, test it if you're not sure. Building test platforms for your floors might seem nitpicky, but knowing beforehand how your floor will feel will make you much more confident while you're building. Better to learn what will work for you before you get it all in place- especially if you'll be building your walls up off this floating floor...

Hrm, just thinking as I type this up... if you go with the 2x2 floor, you should probably use 2x4s laid flat around the perimeter of each floating floor. The reason I say this is because that's where the stud walls above will be built up. And while you could easily nail the studwalls down to the 2x2s, the neoprene pads under those walls will be carrying the load of the walls AND the ceiling you'll be building off them. Making the neoprene pads under these walls wider will help them carry the load.

Hope I'm making sense... it makes sense to me... *shrug*

Im not sure you'll have to insulate between the framing members, either, whether they're 2x6s on end or 2x4s laid flat. If this is over concrete slab, and there's just earth under that, then is it a big deal to have an open space below the floor? I could be very wrong here, but who cares if those cavities resonate?

That ceiling height is awesome. Especially since there's effectively another few feet above it. This means that guys could conceivably get up there, above the ceiling of your recording rooms, and move around and work up there, even with a 10' or 11' ceiling.

Kase
www.minemusic.net

Jai - one of the important factors in a multi studio complex is PRIVACY. If client 1 is doing a new advertising campaign in studio B he doesn't want anyone to hear it! it;s private. Similarly if a band is recording a new single the same applies.

here's an alternative layout to consider bearing this in mind.

cheers
JOhn

John, You are the S%$t. I have been spending about 10 hrs a day looking at this freakin drawing trying to utalize all the space between the restroom and wall between B and offices. You not only used the space but gave me an additional lounge. This is terrific

any comments on my room size, angles, or treatments?

What kind of STC rating increase will wrapping the inside of each control room in 1/2" OSB board ? Giving me 1/2" drywall, 1/2" OSB, 5/8" Drywall. Will the additional $1200.00 give me that much in return?

Thanks to all for all the help. Once again, if any one needs wiring advise in electrical or audio let me know, I want to help where I can.

jai
www.themixstudio.com

What kind of STC rating increase will wrapping the inside of each control room in 1/2" OSB board ? Giving me 1/2" drywall, 1/2" OSB, 5/8" Drywall. Will the additional $1200.00 give me that much in return?

well firstly by moving the studios away from each other has helped with STC problems to start with. I'd leave the OSB out, as you say , the extra $1200 has been saved IMO.

cheers
john