John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hi everyone. Im new here and pretty new to acoustic treatment- not so new to recording though. I posted the following questions over at Homerecording.com and was refered here by a few of the regulars over there (Michael Jones and C7). Hopefully you guys can point me in a direction and shed light on a few things.

This what I posted at HR.com...
Until recently, my band practiced in what I guess you would call the "parlor" in the house my girlfriend and I live in. It’s a 120-year-old farmhouse that we rent from my girlfriends father (so I have some leeway on construction- but not enough to gut the room or anything). About a month ago the band broke up, so now I've been tooling around with the idea of turning it into a "control room"/ home studio I guess you would call it. As of now my recording/ mixing room is in our totally untreated living room and I've always had a big problem getting my mixes to "translate" well to other systems. So now I have the space to move into- and treat properly and I have concocted a plan that I would love to get some input on.

A brief description:
- 13'-2 1/2" W
- 15'-2 3/4" L
- 8'-9 1/2" ceiling

- all existing walls are plaster over lathe (original the 1880's house)
- ceiling is acoustic 12"x12" tile over 1x furring strips attached to the original plaster and lathe ceiling
- the floor is pine over timber joist- basement underneath
- windows are original wood w/ 1950's alum storm windows
- existing door is raised panel solid wood.
- there is a large existing (inoperable) fireplace on one of the long walls.
- there is an existing "bump out" in one corner of the room where a vertical heating duct was added after the fact.

My Hopes
I would like a room properly treated for critical listening. I would also probably use the same space to setup and record guitars / bass / vocals / kazoo (ok not so much kazoo). On the occasion that I have drums to record they could be set up in the adjacent living room.

I already have a suitable (for my purposes) recording setup- computer- Delta 1010lt- S/C Spirit mixer- a few decent mics (nothing spectacular) a few guitars / basses amps / people to play em.

Points of Concern
- I’ve read that a solid mass (i.e. my fireplace) between the monitors results in a more clear stereo image. But, I’ve also read that for whatever reason, its best to orient the desk / monitors about the long access of the room. I am in a position to do one or the other- although I’ve drawn the first scenario. What would you suggest is more important?
- If I were to orient the desk / monitors about the long axis of the room, I would largely lose the ability treat the “back” wall due to an abundance of windows.
- The existing vertical heating duct chase breaks symmetry of the rear wall- Is this a big deal and what are my options for treating / ignoring it?
- I’ve used Ethan’s Modecalc program to calculate my room modes- but I’m not real sure what to do with the results. Would I use this info to design the traps / slot resonators etc. or is this just FYI stuff?

Budget
My budget is flexible but up front I’d say a few hundred bucks to get started. I wont rule out the option of phasing construction to possibly facilitate a larger budget.

Things that have come out of the thread at HR.com are whether the wall behind the mix postion that i show as a slot resonator should be an absorpitive surface (w/out the slats).

Also- am I better off rotating the desk 90 to the other wall with the window(s)? I lose symmetry about the fireplace, but I gain the longer axis of the room. That wont be so much of a problem if Im lookin for absorbtion behind the mix position since I will be hanging heavy curtains anyway(I know- not enough) Id also be willing to hang cloth covered 703 panels in front of the curtains from the ceiling to maybe 3' or 4' down.

It was also suggested to move the monitors foward abit to avoid early reflections from the sidewalls of the fireplace. And, to treat those walls to hinder early reflections from the walls behind the monitors- In that case, I could hang cloth covered 703 about 24" wide from floor to ceiling, using all availible space between the wall and monitor for an air space.

I'd really appreciate any advise you guys can give.

Thanks!
/jeff

Here are some typical room elevations. The windows are double hung and we dont have Air Conditioning so the ability to open those windows is a must . Im not opposed to hangin treatment (in addition to curtains) in front of the windows as long as it doesnt interfere with the opened window.

And, FYI, here is the results of a Ethans Modecalc software using my room dimensions.

I look foward to hearing from you guys. If you have any questions, please ask away!

Thanks again!

I'd do something like this

cheers
john

John-
Thanks a bunch for checking out my plan.
One of the other things brought up at the other site was the potential for early reflections from the walls behind the monitors and the side of the fireplace. Would I gain anything by shrinking the slot resonators on eitherside of the fireplace a bit and putting a layer of cloth wrapped 703 behind the monitors and on the fireplace sides?

Also, will heavier (read- more expensive) curtains over the windows do any more than typical plush curtains or is my money best spent on wall treatment?

BTW - Great site- youre work is is greatly appreciated I'm going to make some plan revisions. I think I might have scored a bunch of "used" 2" Roxul Rock Wool from work- (Im pretty sure its equivilent to 703- it looks the same)- its left overs from a renovation years ago- its just sittin. I could probably do almost my whole plan (*fingers crossed*)

Thanks Again!!!
/Jeff

I agree about the reflections - so why not soffit mount those Events like this?

cheers
john

It would be nice but thats a bit more floor area than Im willing to give up. If I wind up in another band Im gonna need that space. Also, with this being a rental house, I want to try and keep it simple enought that I could unbolt things from the wall in sections and transport it to the next house. WE'll probably be here a couple more years, but this isnt permanent.

What about somehting like this (I know - Paint sucks- I'll CAD somehting up when I have time)...

this would be better

cheers
john

John
I think for this room soffit mounting the monitors is going to be out of the question. I updated me plan and after looking I realized that the fireplace mantle sticks out another 10" past the fireplace and its right about speaker level. So, I'm thinking I have to move the monitors even more foward (which is ok). I dont really want to eat up all that floor area with speaker cabinets. Soffit mounting is going require more skill and effort than I think I have time, room or patience for. Once I actually buy a house and have a whole basement or attic to work with then I'll definately being going a bit more elaborate. Im a bit concerned with mounting anything to the fireplace wall also- that may be plaster & lathe over brick = bitch to screw anthing into. The old plaster is pretty brittle too so the less nailin / screwin / bangin the better.

How much room around the speaker is required to make soffit mounting effective? What if I built a "picture frame" around the speaker- a piece of plywood maybe 6" bigger than the front speaker face all the way around- but bolted to the speaker stand. Would that do any good- or does this rely on the mass of the soffit construction??? (thats probably a stupid idea but i figured id ask anyway )

heres the revised plan... Thanks

Yeah - that's a better idea. I was just concerned about having the speakers tucked back into that corner but if you pull them forward like you've drawn it will work a lot better IMO.

It must be a beautiful house - they don't make windows like that anymore

cheers
john

Thanks John-
You;re right they dont make windows like that anymore. These days they make them air tight and energy efficient . J/K- really though- its a neat old house- 9' ceilings are a plus. We've done a lot a renovation work to bring it back to its former glory (on the inside anyway- we're still workin on the outside). We're arnt gonna be there forever though as its not really in the best of neighborhoods. Thanks for your input and advise- I feel pretty good about this project now. I'll post some pictures once i get started. I bought a table saw yesterday so once I get all the last bands stuff out I'll get goin!!

Thanks again.