Sydney - Good source found for FI48

[base615]

Hi, I've been browsing through this forum for a couple of days but haven't posted yet. I just bought some OC703 equivilent (Fletcher Insulation FI48) today and thought I'd share my experience. All costs are in Australian dollars.

I initially tried Eureka Insulation as recommended in a couple of posts here and they were asking for $91 per sheet (2400x1200x50) with a minimum of 3 sheets and would need to order it in (approx 3 days). They would charge extra for cutting and $60 to deliver in Sydney metro.

I felt this seemed a bit steep so called Fletcher Insulation who put me on to a company called L&M Insulations on Rothwell Ave in Concord. They had some in stock and including cutting it down to 1200x600 sheets they charged me $44.80.

Their number is 02 9736 2122 and if you speak to Denise she should sort you out.

I've made frames with pine from Bunnings and staples as per instructions from a post on this forum but added a centre support to improve rigidity. I will cover the panels in Muslin from Spotlight. I wanted white muslin but they would have had to order it and could take 2 weeks so I went for a garish purple and may change it out later.

My costs have come out as follows.

Bass trap:
Insulation (2 x 1200x600x50mm FI48) - $22.40
Pine (3 x 1200x42x19mm at $1.51 each) - $4.53
Staples (Box of 1000 at $5.99, 120 used per panel) - $0.71
Muslin (1480mm wide at $3.99 per metre, 1.7m used) - $6.78
Total cost - $34.43

Acoustic Panel:
Insulation (1 x 1200x600x50mm FI48) - $11.20
Pine (3 x 1200x42x19mm at $1.51 each) - $4.53
Staples (Box of 1000 at $5.99, 120 used per panel) - $0.71
Muslin (1480mm wide at $3.99 per metre, 1.5m used) - $5.99
Total cost - $22.43

Total costs for 4 traps and 4 panels - $227.44

Cheers,

Craig

[ADDA]

Hello Craig,
Well done on making your own Traps! Please Post some Pictures! I'd Love to see what you did.

Indeed, "Fletcher Insulation FI/48 or FI/96" is "Owens Corning" 703, 705, as it is made under license from Owens Corning by Fletcher Insulation here in Oz. (Hence the Pink Batts, the Pink Panther Logo, and their Colour being "Pink".)

As these Batts come in bale sizes of 4 pieces x 1200 x 2400 mm @ 25-50-100 mm thick from Fletcher themselves, the actual Insulation Supplier or "Retailer" (Whom may have some old or odd size stock from a previous large job, say a House build or Apartments or a possible over-order, do not like cutting it themselves and can't or won't justify it, hence delivery & full price. Some Insulation Retailers will charge every Single Cent they can get from you $$$ though it's not the norm, most don't and I've found Eureka mostly helpful, though they are one of many in this retail area.

I would say you stumbled upon this reverse scenario. As this retailer seemed happy to cut to size for you & deliver (They possibly didn't want it hanging around, not many retailers of Insulation keep big stock piles. Looks like you were lucky on this one. Per Batt price (for FI/48-703 1200 x 2400 mm x 50mm) is $AUD $28.30 for 1st Quarter 2009)

If you ever need to Cut Fletcher FI/48 yourself a simple Serrated Knife (Just nick one you think the Mrs won't miss & score your cutting mark alongside a length of wood like a giant ruler, (i.e cutting 1200 x 600 mm/610 mm) for a 120 x 60 cm wooden Pine frame and the knife will let you cut this stuff like butter, people often think they need an Electric carving Knife etc, Not so for FI/48 -703. I do always suggest IMHO using a mask, old clothes, and cutting outside, as well as putting any scraps bagged in the Glass Bin (Yellow in my area.)

As I'm "Hyper-allergic" to the fibers, I've been using Tontine Acoustisorb 3 which is nearly.... as rigid as FI/48, rigid enough to sit alone in frame at 48/kg m3 and actually after building some large traps they could almost be Beds as it's all Polyester. (I should be posting Pics soon.)

Anyway .... Just thought I'd thank you for the tip and let you know the economy of scale Re: FI/48 pricing as I've found it retail. (Love Pics on this site! Please Post your Traps)
Cheers,
Jazz.

[the bukman]

I know this post was a while ago but will muslin fully prevent any rockwool particles from escaping if it is used as a bass trap cover and secured effectively?
Will it also stop reflections of higher frequencies if used in this manner or is additional damping required?

Cheers

[ADDA]

I know this post was a while ago but will muslin fully prevent any rockwool particles from escaping if it is used as a bass trap cover and secured effectively? Will it also stop reflections of higher frequencies if used in this manner or is additional damping required?

Always check the Specs of what Material your using, if Tontine or FI-48/703 you will know the numbers, or see Stickies in Acoustics section. (Or Bob Golds site link is -http://www.bobgolds.com

1. Yes - These Prices & Materials are still in effect from July 2009.
2. Rockwool has dust, check the width of Muslin against the 1200 x 2400 mm as 1350 mm is the usual size. If not use Calico that size (It comes in black/white/red etc 1380 mm) to dampen Hi Freqs use plastic or weed matt & seal tight to dampen Hi frequencies.
3. Yes, Super-Chunk and/or either Bass Trap absorbers in 5-6 Inch Thick traps into corner wall with another smaller 2-4 Inch behind those corner traps, that's more effective.
4. On the wall to stop reflection 1-2 Inch will be just as if more effective then foam for flutter. Cheap "Poly" Foam burns in a FLASH = Hazard -Don't use it if you all party in there.
Cheers
ADDA.

[the bukman]

Hi Adda,

Thanks for the feedback.

I am currently building a studio space by partitioning off an existing room and will be using a number of 1.8m high x 1.8 m wide acoustic office screens to build an internal studio wall around. Screens are 2 " thick and will be used to create the mixing space angles as well as to create a gap against the existing room walls.
Given the flexibility of placing the screens my plan was to place them at an angle across the mixing desk corners of the room and continuing on behind the desk and monitors.

Behind the corner screens I was going to fill the gap with Bradford soundscreen plus r.2.5 acoustic batts. Plan was to keep it in the roll, cover it with muslin or whatever for visual appeal and stack it to the corner behind the screen and up to the ceiling.
Anyway my concern was where I needed to cut a packet down to have it fit the remaining space to the ceiling and this was where I saw the most risk of particles hence was hoping the muslin or whatever would be okay to wrap around it. Do you know much about the soundscreen product and whether the standard Spotlight supplied muslin would contain it okay? Any other covering material suggestions that I can buy in Oz and that is reasonably priced if muslin wouldn't work?

Cheers

[ADDA]

I am currently building a studio space by partitioning off an existing room and will be using a number of 1.8m high x 1.8 m wide acoustic office screens to build an internal studio wall around.

Do you know what these Office Partitions are made of, i.e the materials.

Screens are 2 " thick and will be used to create the mixing space angles as well as to create a gap against the existing room walls.

So your trying to use the Office Partitions & Bradford Soundscreen Rockwool as an interior leaf and/or extra mass or to hold the rockwool behind in place. Do you have a design plan of the room as it is, and proposed angles as well as all the room sizes, that would be a great help. Room Dimensions?

Given the flexibility of placing the screens my plan was to place them at an angle across the mixing desk corners of the room and continuing on behind the desk and monitors.

So basically your Corner/Side/Back Trapping with the Office Partitions & CSR/ 2.5 SoundScreen while creating a separate partition as well. Sounds like quite a job!

Behind the corner screens I was going to fill the gap with Bradford soundscreen plus r.2.5 acoustic batts. Plan was to keep it in the roll, cover it with muslin or whatever for visual appeal and stack it to the corner behind the screen and up to the ceiling.

That 2.5 is not the best material, 3.5 not much better unless you have prefab traps built for the internal Room. I have the Soundscreen AFT Acoustic Absorption test papers from Bradford/CSR here and all the numbers. Those tests were all done in enclosed MDF 25 mm Cases (See bob Golds website for Density and MDF around 800/kg from memory - http://www.bobgolds.com ), so not knowing what your Office partitions are made of throws things.

Though CSR SoundScreen enclosed in MDF 25 mm looks good in certain numbers on paper with an NRC 1.05 and SAC @ 100 Hz is .30 then going up to .76 @ 200Hz then around .95 @ 250, 315, 400, 500, 1250 Hz etc all the way to .96 @ 5000Hz, I would say the real life scenarios are very different.

Sticking a Bag for AUD$52.00 behind 4-6 Inch FI-48 Panels would help, not so sure here though seeing these numbers are for 25 mm MDF enclosed. The density alone of CSR/Soundscreen is very weak when broken from the Batt pack. You'll get more bang for your buck & Sound using another product IMHO. The CSR tests were done using SoundScreen 32/kg Cubic Meter density, I'm pretty sure a single batt is around 6 or 7/Kg/m3 with 6 batts per Pack in 2.5 color blue.

my concern was where I needed to cut a packet down to have it fit the remaining space to the ceiling and this was where I saw the most risk of particles hence was hoping the muslin or whatever would be okay to wrap around it. Do you know much about the soundscreen product and whether the standard Spotlight supplied muslin would contain it okay? Any other covering material suggestions that I can buy in Oz and that is reasonably priced if muslin wouldn't work?

I certainly think you can do better then using CSR/ Soundscreen in this application, I would re-think the whole scenario your looking at. Info will help. As the CSR/SoundScreen is very dusty I would use 2 layers of Muslin or Calico around AUD$3.50 -$5.50 P/Meter depending on Spotlights sales. A fire retardant to spray on will help as well -( Formula on this site for a DIY type). I can fax you this data if you have a Number. For the fabric, buying a bolt or large roll has always been cheaper in my experience.

The CSR/Bradford Acoustic Consultants (Ask for Joe) usually are very willing to help studio guys, I would go to the CSR site then across to Bradford materials section and download their Red-Book PDF on building Acoustically with their products, there is a master section in their as well as a Home Cinema acoustic PDF file that might point you in the right direction. Read the stickies here on JLS and gather as much info as possible before you build. Hope this helps.

Cheers
ADDA

[John Sayers]

This is the equivalent to 703 from Fletcher Insulation

Insulco_SemiRigid.pdf

[ADDA]

Hi John,
There is a page full of detailed information in the Building Materials section of the forum for Australian's regarding all the differing Materials & Pricing Re: material for Bass Traps (Broadband absorbers) as I found it in October 2008. Most pricing I understand is still very close with the $AUD. I did provide links to all the manufactures (Save Acoustica/Sonnex) at that time, and I was under the impression that loading PDF files directly without a link was not JLS policy? Anyway for those who need the info, it is there. So John, can PDF's re such material be loaded or is the link method better, as those companies do change their web-sites every 6-12 months. I'll happily update those 2008 Posts if required.
Regards
ADDA.