John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Thanks Stuart!

Just an update I have been making some progress with the framing but can't do too much until my insulation is delivered since I have to put it places that I won't have access to once I build an inside out wall. I'll post some pics of the progress tomorrow.

Tomorrow I have a plumber coming in to rough out the bathroom and relocate some more piping and a shut off valve to an accessible location.

Also, I wont be able to proceed with my framing until I decide how to frame the doors.

Since I am going with a single door, I need to know which framing detail I should follow, Rod's, or this other method:
Option 1 (Rods) Option 2 Does any one know which is better?

Once I have this info I should be able to frame everything out.

If you are going with a single door, it probably doesn't really matter if you couple the leaves, since your isolation is reduced in any case. So that's probably fine.


- Stuart -

Great Thanks for the reply Stuart - saving me left and right.

Rod basically says to couple the leaves in his book but I wasn't sure if there was any advantage to the other method.

I wasn't sure if there was any advantage to the other method.

Only if you have two doors...


- Stuart -

I wish I had the space but the door is at the bottom of the stairs and can only swing 1 direction.

The other opening could be a double, but I figured since I'm forced into doing 1 single door, may as well just do both openings single doors.

UPDATE! Here are some construction photos! DISCLAIMER: I KNOW some of the photos are upside down or sideways. I am unable to fix this on this computer. I have tried everything. If anyone knows why this keeps happening or how to fix it PLEASE HELP!! I cannot adjust them once they are uploaded on this site, so I have to adjust them before. When I view them on my computer, they are all upright to begin with, but I tried rotating them anyway back to upright and re-saving them, but still when I upload to this site they go sideways again!! i took all photos from same phone holding same way and sent to same computer so I at completely clueless as to why this is happening!!

EDIT: ALL PHOTOS HAVE BEEN FIXED (no longer sideways/upside down)

Insulation delivery - approx 4,000 square feet - wouldn't fit in my garage!!
these next few photos are the 7" thick of mineral wool that go behind this one inside out wall:

hardest part so far was holding the 7" thick of rockwool in place before the inside out wall was stood up into place. they had a tendency to bow outwards and want to fall down. To remedy I made tie-straps with blue tarp material to hold it in place. (it looks like blue painters tape but it is blue tarp cut into strips). Even with the straps holding it was still bowing and about to collapse. I basically held it all in place by hand with my body, then as my friend lifted the wall I made a last minute escape from the cavity. Even though I put 7" of mineral wool, and the wall has a 7" space, it was still rather difficult to get the wall back as far as it needed to. I had to hammer the bottom a bit to get it into place. Even thought the insulation is not being compressed, I can still see/feel it pushing the wall outwards slightly, on the top where it is not yet fastened (it is fastened to the slab on bottom). This was causing the side walls to "twist" - in other words, the vertical studs were not longer vertial but slightly leaning toward one side. To remedy, I put some temp wood braces to press against the wall, and everything went back to normal. I am hoping that once I put a layer of 3/4" ply on the studs, then any twisting will be prevented. Hopefully this is not a problem, please let me know. I am hoping that If i leave the wall pressed up against the insulation with slight pressure for a few days, it wont push back out once I take the temp braces off.

Making a piece of 1" thick batt: Inside out wall UP!! once the inside out wall was up, I was able to take a pic from the side since that portion is still open. here is the regular wall partially filled with mineral wool. the space in between the studs will also be filled. 8" air space here so the mineral wool will fit perfectly without cutting the thickness. The vapor barrier wraps around the sides and the top so that it can overlap the other pieces of vapor barrier that will get installed prior to plywood/gypsum. Last photo is the framing towards the top of the wall where it clears the existing beams by less than 1/2" I've also began filling the overhead cavity with mineral wool as well, I'll post some photos of that later today.

UPDATE! Here are some construction photos!

Cool! So it DID happen!

hardest part so far was holding the 7" thick of rockwool in place before the inside out wall was stood up into place. they had a tendency to bow outwards and want to fall down.

I think that's because you built part of your wall sideways, part upside down, and part hanging bakwards from the ceiling!

DISCLAIMER: I KNOW some of the photos are upside down or sideways.

You could move to Australia, and that would fix it! (Gee, I'm funny today... )

Seriously, any good graphic or paint program should be able to fix that. I downloaded a couple of yours, and they stayed sideways on my computer. A quick "rotate right", and they stood up properly again.

Apart from that, it's looking pretty nice!


- Stuart -

Apart from that, it's looking pretty nice!

some more pics of the rockwool going in-between existing joists. the reason they are not filling the entire depth of the joist, is because I am actually able to go with all 2x6 ceiling joists so they need that 2" space to fit the 2x6. otherwise the 2x6 would be squeezing the rockwool..... once the 2x6's go in, I'll fill the rest of the way.

this photo is shows the new steel beam with existing joists tied in, as well as the "beef-up". On the other side of the beam the rockwool is installed. again this is blue tarp stapled holding the rockwool up, not blue painters tape. new wall build just about 1/2" below existing joists. the white wall is the existing foundation wall and "outer leaf" in the center of this photo you can see a yellow line, that's an electrical wire. the new 2x6 ceiling joists may end up touching this wire slightly
it is not making the wire tight or putting any pressure on it, but I will probably be in contact with the wire. these wires are not exactly soft and flexible but not rigid either. Is there a big concern for coupling/flanking or isolation loss because of this wire?

last photo is of inside out wall with the vapor barrier extending over the top and sides so it can be continuous with the ceiling and other walls. I do have some question about how to get the vapor barrier installed on the inside-out ceiling. I have some ideas, but i think there will be small sections of framing still exposed..... I'll save this for another post. Also, ALL PHOTOS UPRIGHT (pats self on back)

Is there a big concern for coupling/flanking or isolation loss because of this wire?

Probably not, but if you are concerned about it, then put a soft rubber pad on top of the joist, where the wire will rest on it. Even a dab of very elastic caulk at the right spot would help (allow it to dry before you put the joist in place, of course)

- Stuart -

put a soft rubber pad on top of the joist, where the wire will rest on it. Even a dab of very elastic caulk at the right spot would help

Stuart - THANKS A MILLION! as always...(i think were a few million in at this point, hopefully your not keeping track)

(i think were a few million in at this point, hopefully your not keeping track)

No problem! I'll let you know where you can send those millions, any time you are ready! Stray millions are always welcome in my bank account, for example!!


- Stuart -

some more construction photos!!
another material delivery! inside out wall in the back and regular walls on the sides: Also i do have one question. I saw in another post Stuarts method for decoupling electrical conduit between leaves. Due to the only 1" between framing, I could not run the conduit horizontal, so I ran in vertically. See photo: I used rubber couplings to try and de-couple the conduit (<--- oxymoron?) So its a PVC elbow, then rubber coupling, then a length of PVC, then another rubber coupling, then the last PVC elbow. Its 2" PVC by the way. Does anyone know if these rubber PVC fitting will sufficiently decouple the pipe/walls? The rubber is noticeably flexible, it can be easily squeezed by hand. Its not "soft" but not rigid either. There is at least 2" of just rubber (no plastic PVC attachment within the coupling).

I have not covered up the pipe yet, so it's not to late to remove it, and do it right (if this is wrong)

(the plan is all surface mount for the electric by the way)

Does anyone know if these rubber PVC fitting will sufficiently decouple the pipe/walls?

It looks fine. It's not just the straight-through flexibility of the rubber, but rather also the long "lever" that you added in there with the vertical section. So that's fine.

- Stuart -

It looks fine. It's not just the straight-through flexibility of the rubber, but rather also the long "lever" that you added in there with the vertical section. So that's fine.

Thank you for the quick reply Stuart!!

More building planned for this weekend, I'll be sure to post more pics!

Following, and can’t wait to see how your ceiling ends up! Great job so far, and thanks for posting your design and progress!