John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Hey Andy! Good to see you are still around, and moving forward!

About that pole: In a similar situation for a guy in Canada who needed extreme isolation, what I did was to wrap the pole with insulation, build a frame around it that does not touch it (!), then put drywall on the frame. So basically, the frame is attached to the outer leaf floor and the outer-leaf ceiling, but does not tough the pole. Yes, that does create a 3 leaf system, but the effect is minimal, and not at the frequency where the pole "rings" anyway. If you are concerned about that, then put two layers of drywall on that frame, with Green Glue in between. Basically, you are building a miniature "room" around the pole, that measures just a few inches on each side. That "room" does not touch the pole, and does not touch the inner leaves of the actual studio rooms either.

That's what I did for the guy in Canada. It worked.

Another option that should work (but which I have not tried, and might be too expensive) is to wrap the pole with thick, soft rubber, such as EPDM or Sorbothane, which will damp the ringing and also add some mass, to improve isolation. But a sheet of rubber big enough to do that would probably more expensive than the framing and drywall to do it the other way.

- Stuart -

Thanks Stuart and thanks so much for your reply. I like option #1. It's kind of what my initial instinct was telling me and pretty cheap and easy to do. What kind of insulation did you use for your guy in Canada - un-faced fiberglass (in which case what R value do you recommend?) or perhaps some other insulation like Roxul?

So an area I wanted to address and run by you is on a popular topic here on the forum - window plugs. Firstly the good news is that I talked to the building inspector yesterday and he confirmed that in Virginia I am allowed to block, fill, or cover the existing basement windows - since I have already added an Egress window in the one room that will be used as a bedroom. Any other windows are only needed for light according to him (I was kind of surprised he didn't mention ventilation, but was prepared to discuss my solution for that). Anyhoo, I've decided that to maintain the outside esthetics and keep the costs down I will plug the windows in the 8" poured concrete wall and then frame my new inner walls with no windows at all.

My plan is to follow the approach described here in this thread for the window plugs, but was considering using the "Great Stuff" spray foam in place of the EPS foam board. The reason I'm considering this approach is that it would form itself around all of the detail of the existing window (handle etc.) with no board cutting required, and no air gaps whatsoever. From what I can tell it is closed cell, so this is likely the one legitimate use for the product in building studios So does that seem ok to you?

The other thing I wanted to discuss was the glass itself. I took one of the windows apart last night and it's a 7/8" IGU in a vinyl frame. I was planning to replace the glass with something more substantial to lower the risk of it getting broken one day and the PITA it would be to repair (keep in mind I have two young boys that love to kick and throw ). If I look to get a replacement IGU made with laminated safety glass I will have a third leaf scenario. Do you think this will be significant? If so, would I be better off to replace the IGU with a single pane of glass and try to create some kind of spacer to bring the panel up to the same thickness as the 7/8" IGU? Or perhaps you have some other ideas on how to approach this?

I'm posting below an updated floor plan. As you can see I have eliminated the drum room for now for two reasons:
1) Lower the cost
2) I really struggled to find any kind of patio door that I could fit down my basement stairs.

I'm hoping that having a much larger room this time around will significantly reduce the bleed into vocal mikes if singers are performing at the other end of the live room. If it turns out to be really bad I will perhaps try to create some kind of screen for the drummer.

Many thanks again and look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Andy

I was just reading through this thread and coming to the conclusion that I would indeed need to replace the glass with one single pane of laminated glass when it occurred to me that the vinyl frame itself would likely then need replacing with wood or steel too - as the vinyl frame is likely hollow right? Hence another point at which it would be a third leaf. I guess I could drill a hole in the frame and fill that too with the closed cell spray foam?

Am I totally overthinking this or is it significant enough of an issue?

Apologies for the bump, but I'm keep to get some feedback on the above topic. Hopefully it's a topic that will be of use to others in the future also.

Many thanks,

Andy

Hi Andy, and apologies for the looooong delay...

What kind of insulation did you use for your guy in Canada - un-faced fiberglass

It doesn't really matter: As far as I recall, we used Roxul mineral wool panels for there, probably around 50 kg/m3. But it's not critical.

Firstly the good news is that I talked to the building inspector yesterday and he confirmed that in Virginia I am allowed to block, fill, or cover the existing basement windows -

Good news! That will make things easier.

My plan is to follow the approach described here in this thread for the window plugs, but was considering using the "Great Stuff" spray foam in place of the EPS foam board. The reason I'm considering this approach is that it would form itself around all of the detail of the existing window (handle etc.) with no board cutting required, and no air gaps whatsoever. From what I can tell it is closed cell, so this is likely the one legitimate use for the product in building studios So does that seem ok to you?

That sounds like it should work OK, but I'd suggest painting the glass on the inside before you spray; it wouldn't look to pretty from the outside, to see the glass all yukily foamed up... Just paint it black, or white, or whatever color takes your fancy, taking care to leave a smooth finish.

If I look to get a replacement IGU made with laminated safety glass I will have a third leaf scenario. Do you think this will be significant? If so, would I be better off to replace the IGU with a single pane of glass and try to create some kind of spacer to bring the panel up to the same thickness as the 7/8" IGU? Or perhaps you have some other ideas on how to approach this?

Personally, I'd replace the glass with a single laminated pane, thick, for the two reasons you mentioned: acoustic (avoid 3-leaf) and better resisting the attacks of enraged balls! Laminated glass can take more of a beating than IGU or non-laminated glass... You are in a cold climate, so normally IGU would be a better bet from that point of view, but you are planning to seal this thing up with foam, insulation and another thick layer of mass, so I wouldn't worry about the thermal issues.

I was just reading through this thread and coming to the conclusion that I would indeed need to replace the glass with one single pane of laminated glass when it occurred to me that the vinyl frame itself would likely then need replacing with wood or steel too - as the vinyl frame is likely hollow right

Don't sweat it too much: The vinyl is probably fine. But if you could replace the entire window with something that has thicker, more massive frames, then that would be a good option. But once again, I wouldn't sweat it too much: PVC is pretty dense, at about 800 kg/m3, and that framing isn't as thin as you might expect. There are also likely several layers in their, with gaps between them, so it's a lot more complex that you'd think at first guess, and will be pretty decent. Here's a picture I found online of what a typical vinyl frame for an IGU window looks like internally:

Am I totally overthinking this

Yup!


- Stuart -

Hey Andy,

Great to see your still here and making progress. I have some catching up to do on your post, hopefully be able to give it some attention tonight.

kevin

Likewise Kevin. It's always reassuring to know there's another set of eyes watching my potential mistakes

Andy,

You still around? Any progress on the new studio? I'm going to post my new space soon, and looking for critics!

Kevin

Post moved to construction forum..

The new build has officially begun!!! 75 sheets of drywall and 1312 linear feet of 1x3’s arrived Monday for the beef up stage which begun yesterday. As such I’m going to start a new thread on the construction forum to document progress. I’m working with contractors again and so it should move pretty quickly. I’m estimating completion by the end of February.

Still looking for ideas / input on my issue mentioned in the previous post if Stuart of anyone could comment.

Many thanks and switch channels to construction for continued updates!

Andy.