John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum Archive

Rod:

I found some stall matts at Tractor supply--- about 3/4" thick. 4' x 6' = 25matts = $925... to use for pucking under the walls an floors... What do you think about 4" x 4" under the studs? At what distance separation?

Wall structures are 2x4s 2 x 10 ceiling joists; 3/4" ply on top of ceiling joists
Thermafiber SAFB insulation throughout 2 - 5/8" sheetock on all interiaor walls/ceiling' floor floated on pucks/2x4 on side; 3/4 t&G Ply and either carpet/cork or oak hardwood flooring depending on the room.

I figured to space the pucks 16" o.c. under each stud; and 24" apart inder the floor sleepers (2x4 on side) glued down with PL400 to the concrete (cleanered) and then to the sleepers. Floor plywood would than be screwed/glued to the sleepers and then finish floor matieal to the ply.

Where there are sliding doors, the bottom of the doors will be sunk into the flooring to lower the lip of the door when open, to minimize trip hazards.

Hope this works for you. Should have my permit be week end netxt and a framer and the masons can get started ASAP after that!

I'll call you for a meeting with my and the framers/drywallers about specs and technique prior to beginning of framing and would like to settle up with you shortly after that meeting.

Thanks for your help.

Namaste,

Jon


Does this work out?

MAY 19 ---

3 layers of degreaser and rinsing later... I have got things together to start the Muriatic Acid Etching process. I called the FD and they told me because I am indoors to use any means of ventilation I can and test a 1' square first to check for too stron fumess or vapors close to the ground... If not, then OK to work in a larger space... I am working in 10' x 10' sections as it is. Slow and steady work. In the end, I decided on the Behr System which uses degreaser - etch/soap together/rinse/primer/2 coats of top coat paint slate gray. Should take about a week with all the application/dry times etc., maybe a bit longer.

Monday or Tuesday I go for my permit once I hear from the HVAC, Sprinkler guys and the LVL Beam/ Trus0Joists plans from Rugg Lumber my lumber supplier for the entire project for their shop/engineered drawings.

Have a nice weekend everyone!

Jon

frostgfx wrote: I found some stall matts at Tractor supply--- about 3/4" thick. 4' x 6' = 25matts = $925... to use for pucking under the walls an floors... What do you think about 4" x 4" under the studs? At what distance separation?

John - the problem with this stuff is that there is really no way to know for sure - because we don't know the duro hardness of the material - and you have to be in the right range for any of it to work.

My other concern is that if you fastened the wall down (through them) - you negate any value that they might give - but if you don't - then nothing is fastening the bottom of your wall in cae of a seismic event.......... and code requies physical fastening of the wall base.

My preference to that is this:

http://209.200.80.33/html/neoprene_mounts.htm

Look at the ND mounts - they are perfect for framed walls - spacing at 4' works perfect - they list for around $19 in a "B"mount (The base is 1 5/8" x 1 13/16") - and we would just have to determine the layout and which color went where (color determines loading capacity - proper loading gives you a 10Hz center frequency mount).

With these you are perfectly connected to both the floor and wall - they are seismically sound and you can caluculate exactly what you need.

I figured to space the pucks 16" o.c. under each stud; and 24" apart inder the floor sleepers (2x4 on side) glued down with PL400 to the concrete (cleanered) and then to the sleepers. Floor plywood would than be screwed/glued to the sleepers and then finish floor matieal to the ply.

As I said - anybodys guess is as good as any one elses - you could create isolation - or a perfect mechanical amplifier......

Where there are sliding doors, the bottom of the doors will be sunk into the flooring to lower the lip of the door when open, to minimize trip hazards.

excellent

Hope this works for you. Should have my permit be week end netxt and a framer and the masons can get started ASAP after that!

I'll call you for a meeting with my and the framers/drywallers about specs and technique prior to beginning of framing and would like to settle up with you shortly after that meeting.

I'll be ready to meet when ever you need me.

Sincerely,

Rod

So why not just anchor the sole plates to the floor with double sill sealer adn slap anchors every 4' to bolt the sole plates to the floor/ or put a thick layer of PL400 Adhesive between the sole plate and the cement (cleaned) and the same slap anchors.

Flotat the floor only on the pucks gleud with PL4-400 both sides to cove the sleepers. and then glue/screw the 3/4" ply to the sleepers after installiing dry and in all the voides and screeding it to level at the top of the sleepes?

Jon

frostgfx wrote:So why not just anchor the sole plates to the floor with double sill sealer adn slap anchors every 4' to bolt the sole plates to the floor/ or put a thick layer of PL400 Adhesive between the sole plate and the cement (cleaned) and the same slap anchors.

Jon,

That sounds fine to me - but you were heading in a different direction (or at least I thought you were) and I was responding to that.

I do not believe that in this old (former) factory that you are going to have a lot of issue with transmissions through the concrete deck.

Float the floor only on the pucks glued with PL4-400 both sides to cove the sleepers. and then glue/screw the 3/4" ply to the sleepers after installiing dry and in all the voides and screeding it to level at the top of the sleepes?

???????? If you are placing dry sand between the sleepers- what do you gain with the pucks?

I usually recommend the sand - but once using it - there is no real reason to install pucks at all.

Rod

I'd much rather go with dry sand between the sleepers... drop the rubber pucks altogether since they are so damn expensive...

Use double sill sealer OR a heavy layer of PL400 adhesive and no sill sealer at all, then caulk the crap out of the bottom plates where they meet the concrete floor... Add dry sand and screed to level ... add 3/4" T&G A/C Ply... Depending on the room, add hardwood, cork or carpet... Whalla... finished floor that won't move and doesn't act like a big drum head! The fun part is lasering a level floor in each room at matches the entrance door height...

So many details to figure out before I get my permit and start framing.

Tomorrow I spackle the floor in the mailing area prior to etching the whole area and primer/painting (2 coats).


Jon

frostgfx wrote:I'd much rather go with dry sand between the sleepers... drop the rubber pucks altogether since they are so damn expensive...

Great idea..............

Rod

June 11 ---

Finally have some progress to report...

Received my permit to block in the window bays last week and the masons have been hard at work! 8 hours pay for a 4 hour day...They should be done by the beginning of next week and then the electricians come in to remove the last installed lighting prior to framing the divider wall between the mailing and studio area on the 20th.

I am STILL waiting for my permit for the actual studio build out... seems the sprinkler guys are way slow on getting my engineered drawings (read $825) and the HVAC has been a nightmare... trying to get people to commit to a price and timeframe for installation of the ducting before the framing begins for their ease of installation from a scissor lift.

On the 25th, framing should begin in earnest, first on the divider wall and then on the Vocal booth and Control Room. I'll be moving things around and around when I'm not ordering supplies for the contractors.

More pics shortly.

Jon

June 24th ---

Finally some progress...

The demo guys came to smash lots of glass out of the 3 window sashes...2 guys 2 more windows (they did the first one about a month ago).

The masons came as soon as I had my permit for the blocking in of the 3 windows. Took them about 3.5 days to complete and then I sealed the blocks this past Sunday.

On 6/20 I finally got started in earnest on the layout of all the studio space and the divider wall. Still waiting on my main building permit... as long as nothing is nailed down, I can cut all the geometric shapes I want!!!!!

Thursday I got around to making a form and patching the ramp where I had demo'd a few months ago. Nice job I think... except for the lime burns on my lower arms from mixing the cement in a 5 gal bucket by hand... no mortar pan or hoe...

"It seemed like a good idea at the time..."

The electricans are going to try to come this week to run the conduit and main connections for the studio power. There will be 5 20a circuits;

1) Equipment closet (MAC, Sync, WC DA, SMPTE TC (Digital Timepiece), DV Deck, etc.

2) CR #1 for Console, monitors, convenience outlets.

3) CR #2 for 4 Bay Outboard Racks.

4) Studio #1 - outlets for all the studio rooms

5) Studio #2 more outlets for all the studio rooms (every other outlet is on a different circuit),

Each Circuit will be connected to a Monster Power 3500. It's nice to be able to tell you have a decent ground... my former electrician didn't install a separate ground wire and used the conduit as a ground..... BAD IDEA... one loose screw and goodbye Ground!!!!!!!!

Once they have finished this part of their work, framing will begin. I've ordered enough lumber to complete and shoot all the sole plates into the concrete floor. After that, There will be walls going up in various places around the studio so I can try to complete the large Vocal Booth top to bottom as a template for the rest of the studio. 6/25 100 sheets of 5/8" drywall and soemting like 60 bags of Thermafiber insulation and R19 for the divider wall comes in. Friday the balance of the lumber needed for the Vocal Booth, CR and Chill room arrives... Gonna be a bit crowded I think...

John S. has come up with some neat ideas for variable acoustic panels which fold away on the walls; one side reflective, the other more dead. Can lighting along with sconces in each space will provide mood lighting and task lighting on variac dimmers.

As luck would have it... this will be the end point for now until I can scrape up some more $$$ (get a real job) to put into the studio space. The summer is dead for mailings since everyone is away and no one wants to read their mail. Going to see about getting some work doing film/DV sound with some of the indie folks in the area. I have my own kit (mixer, SMPTE 2 track Flash recorder, mics, boom pole, etc.) Failing that, there is always the temp agency.

Take care and look forward to posting once the framing gets started. It 's been a long wait I can tell you!

July 13th ---

I know it's Friday the 13th... but I've given up that superstition in order to complete as much framing as I can before my framing nailer rental is up next Friday.

The last two weeks have been ball busters with the framers coming 3 days last week and bugging out due to being way over booked. Probably can't get back until September at this point, so I am framing the walls I can do by myself and leaving the rest for when they come back.

Mailing area walls are complete, wired and inspected this morning so I can insulate and drywall over the weekend. I really hope to get the mailing space finished off ASAP so I can make some serious room in the studio space for constructing walls laying down!

The Amp Booth framing is complete except for the addition of 1 layer of drywall and 3/4" t&g Advantech over that on the roof. Electrician will be in on Monday to rough wire the Amp Booth and the Ramp Wall so I can have those inspected next week and close them in.

I am taking tomorrow off to play and Sunday will be back at it framing in the Chill Room back walls and the back wall of the Drum Booth if I have the time and energy.

Today I got a massive lumber delivery including the LVLs for the CR. I told the supplier not to send them yesterday... and of course they ended up on the truck... Oh well.

I've had to make some serious chages to the plans as far as doors and a few other items. Seems the ADA thing is getting serious in my area with people just looking to sue... No thanks.

Wondering what others have used to test the sound integrity of their rooms as they go? I was planning up put my computer speakers in the Amp Booth once the doors arrive to check for leaks as this room in 'inside out' design.

Also the Drum Booth is regular framing, so I was curious to know how to go about sealing each bay with acoustic sealant, or if I don't have to since the 2 layers of drywall are on the inside. I am planning to put twine over the wall laying down to keep the insulation in place once erected. The walls are anywhere from 11 - 14' 6" tall and 12-16' long...I'd prefer to frame them whole and get help to muscle them into place with stick braces. There were some errors on the Amp Booth which I don't want repeated on future spaces!

The Vocal Booth will be 3rd on the list... 'inside out' design and 15' wide 11' deep with 8' 9' to 11' ceiling height. Gonna wait for the framers for that room! CR is last on the list since it will probably take 2-3 weeks to frame with all the compound cuts and soffiting and such.

I'll post some photos later this weekend but right now I need to eat and sleep.

Namaste,

Hai there Frosty,

Great pix on a great project. Progress feels good, doonit?

However, I'm a bit conserned. On the next picture I see hollow core blocks. Did ya fill'm with sand or anything? I mean, it's a bit of a bummer having such thick walls which are hardly worth the money spend on. Havin' them filled, really makes a heavy mass wall. (or at least fill it with wool or sumpfn the get rid of nasty in-wall sounds)

Ro:

Those walls are 8" SOLID BLOCK... I know I carried a bunch of 'em...

Today I built the Chill Room back wall, small angle wall at base or Ramp and the header over the bottom of the ramp. I'm bushed. Tomorrow I will build the other Ramp wall for the closet space and then on to the Drum Booth back wall.

Jon

July 16 ---

So here we are... some pics of the last two weeks of work on Meow Mix.

Sole Plates for Control Room Couch Corner.

Shawn the framer checking out the framing on the Studio entrance in the dividing wall.

Sample of rough wiring for the dividing wall.

Ramp Wall framing

Amp Booth "Inside Out Wall"

Amp Booth 3 walls

Amp Booth Window

Amp Booth Front Wall - Framed by yours truly...

Chill Room/Ramp Closet Wall framing

Vocal Booth Back Wall - Inside Out Design

Today was a busy day after 3 days of framing, framing, splinter... Owy!
This afternoon I got the Vocal Booth back wall framed and was going to get started on the Drum Booth Back wall... but a pesky old heating pipe still needs to be removed in order for the bottom plate to fit... so I have to wait till the plumbers can get in.

Spent the better part of 2 hours with the electrician scoping out what is going to go where for boxes (trim ring depths) lighting switches, fixtures and receptacles. He'll be back tomorrow to finish in the mailing area which right now is occupied with lumber and sheetrock... So much for materials planning.

There is certainly satisfaction in framing a wall, having it come out plumb and level! Not always on the first try though. Gratifying none the less. Tomorrow I have to pick up some masonry anchors and more nails for the nail gun which took a slight drop necessitating the replacement of the connection fitting. Glad I got the insurance on the rental.

Hope to build the Chill Room/Live Area wall tomorrow and with luck, start on the Drum Booth back wall framing on Weds.

Also hoping to settle my big D later this week, so have a good thought for that project as well.

Would like to hear from any local folks (Western MA) or anyone who might want to take a peek (or muscle up a wall or two).

Namaste,

July 16 --- Continued

July 22 ---

The past few days have been busy with finishing the Amp Booth framing and ceiling joists, framing the Ramp and Chill Room walls and the Vocal Booth. I also framed the back wall of the Drum Booth, but I need mega help to lift that as wall as well as the VB walls once they are drywalled (inside out). The electrician has been busy as well. Next week (I was supposed to be on vacation in ME... but my divorce got in the way) I'll try to get started on the drywalling of the Dividing Wall so I can get that painted and move my mailing stuff into the space FOR GOOD!

Money is really tight at this point so I am trying to get things accomplished on my own with the materials at hand.

TIP: Do yourself a favor and clean up your tools and materials and vaccuum each night before you leave... That way you know where everything is when you start fresh in the morning rather than tripping over things and spending the first half hour looking for that pesky framer square.

It's nice to see things progressing. John S. is going to try to come by for a visit on his way south sometime in August. I am truly in awe... so will lay in a supply of single malt for his arrival.

Pics next week sometime of latest progress.

Namaste,