Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

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xSpace
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by xSpace »

Soundman2020 wrote: Anyway, the closest ratio I found by fiddling with the numbers for a few minutes is:
Length=14.5 ft, Width=18.25 ft, Height=11.5 ft That works out to a ratio of 1 : 1.26 : 1.58, which is one of C.P. Boner´s good rations, according to Bob Gold's calculator. It's still not a fantastic ration, but it IS in the ball-park, and is on the charts that Eric Desart prepared so carefully over at Studiotips. I reckon it should work. (It is also a bit better than the classic "golden rule" ratio, according to Eric).



- Stuart -
Except, all I was saying is to build the 19 foot wall stepped in on both ends so it changes the room to a rectangle, optimal, mildly abrasive or what have you.

A poor rectangle is better than a perfect square.

You have your options Randy now it is a simple mater of what to do.

One isn't going to change your life any more than the other. Floor space concerns, your landlord, only you guys can make that final choice, we just throw stuff at the walls and see if it sticks.

Or if someone eats it up ;)
Randyman...
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by Randyman... »

True true - I have to make the end decision.

The complications of the wall attachment points and the current uncertainty about making the dead space into a storage area with a cheap pre-hung door is steering me towards my initial plan with the walls attaching to the corner columns (still be inset approx 10" form the current wall), and peak at a 3' apex - the walls will be slightly asymmetrical.

I'll rip down all of the existing treatment and expose all of the walls (one will be brick/mason, the other 3 will now be drywall since I'm covering the other brick/mason wall). I'll likely be able to re-purpose the existing 2" Pyramid type foam along the front wall in other areas...

I'll continue to check back for suggestions - and I will certainly keep you updated on the progress (should have some pics, too). This will be so much more ghetto than anything you are likely used to seeing on this astute message board :oops: (you should see it NOW!!! OMG!!!)
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
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xSpace
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by xSpace »

Dude, I used to be homeless. You ever tried to develop a good sounding card board box?

Have a great time with it, it's an improvement no matter which way you go,


Brien
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by AVare »

xSpace wrote:[
Except, all I was saying is to build the 19 foot wall stepped in on both ends so it changes the room to a rectangle, optimal, mildly abrasive or what have you.

A poor rectangle is better than a perfect square.[
+1.

Andre
Good studio building is 90% design and 10% construction
Randyman...
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by Randyman... »

Been a few weeks! Please allow me to ramble...

We went ahead and plowed on through and built the "in/out" splayed wall. The room was in a huge disarray during the build, and I didn’t have a chance to re-RTA the room before we hung the drywall (I didn’t exactly “stuff” the cavity, but I did hang a good deal of pink stuff in there - and it is air-tight). The room is STILL in total disarray, and I STILL haven’t had time to re-RTA the room. The PA system does sound somewhat smoother in the bass (also re-positioned the 3rd sub), but I can’t really hear any huge improvements just yet (not terribly worried yet)

Now will come the task of treating the other walls and bass trapping – and of course, I have some questions. If it isn’t completely obvious from the pics – this is a low-budget “ghetto” build out in a rental rehearsal space. I’m NOT expecting Ocean Way (and my small budget knows this).

So, just to recap (see pics - the drums are rotated 90 degrees where my back faces the wall with the clock) – The remainder of the walls are still VERY ugly and need treatment (more correctly – re-treatment! ;) ). The mirrored wall with the door has a ~ 12’ wide x 8’ tall mirror (lots of cracked panes, too!) – it appears to be ¾” Particle Board which was attached to the existing wall (probably with screws – but I can’t tell) – and then the 12”x12” mirror panels were glued on top of the particle board. I don’t see any easy or safe way to get the mirrors off of the particle board so the particle board can be removed. I’m pondering covering most of that wall with a crude slat wall. The remainder of the wall (around the mirror) is drywall covered with ugly 1/2” foam – then partially covered with the thick black plastic tarp. Nice, huh? :-P

As far as trying to keep this “Back Wall” wall somewhat “Live”, is a very crude slat wall even something I should consider with the wall’s current state? I’m thinking I could randomly angle the slats on the horizontal axis to help scatter the reflections up/down (poor man’s diffuser!) while improving the room’s aesthetic on the cheap (scope of project = cheap!). And if my final Slat dimensions are correct – I can kill some 300-700Hz honk. I will, of course, do my research into slat dimensions and spacing – but the cavity behind the slat wall won’t be 100% consistent (the area behind the mirror will be shallower than the area outside of the mirror) – and I want to angle the slats to scatter the reflections up/down. Any pointers here? Maybe forget the slat wall altogether and cover it with a layer of drywall - or dig in and rip off the mirror?


What I call “The Front Wall” (opposite the door - wall with the clock in the 2nd picture) was a brick/mason wall that already had (4) 4’ x 8’ x 2" thick pyramid foam panels glued to it. You can see the "before" pics where the pyramid foam panels did not completely cover the ugly window foam up high on the wall (pic 2). We simply re-arranged these panels (raised them off the floor and spaced them evenly) to cover the ugly foam that covers the windows (the 2 windows on that wall are covered with plywood and 1/2” ugly foam). This exposed some brick/mason along the floor, and two 12" wide exposed portions of brick that run vertically (mostly absorption, but some reflection on this wall). I think this wall *might* be OK w/o too much work. It is still ugly, but passable for the scope of this project (covering the ugly window foam did wonders by itself!).

The last wall (opposite the new splayed wall - not pictured) is drywall and is 100% covered with ugly 1/2” foam – then covered with thick plastic tarp. This wall will also need some TLC – and I’m loosely planning on ripping all of the plastic and foam off – doing some touch-up work and a coat of paint to start with a “fresh wall” – and treat with 703 panels from there.

Lastly, I plan on doing corner bass traps / super chunks in two or three wall-wall corners, and in at least two ceiling-wall corners – and I’ll be expanding the Drum Cloud to 8’ x 6’. I’m hoping the combo of the new wall plus bass trapping will make this room much less finicky in the bass. Still pondering adding hard tops to the clouds as well...

Anyways – Thanks for letting me ramble – and thanks for any pointers… Hopefully I’ll get a chance to re-RTA the room this weekend and go from there. If I don't hear back from you smart fellas, I'll likely get started on the crude slat wall that covers the mirror, and go from there. Bass Traps will be next...

:cool:
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy
Randyman...
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Re: Treating a rental rehearsal room 20'x20'x18'?

Post by Randyman... »

Still making progress - Slowly but surely. I re-built my Drum Cloud - took down the 4' x 6' x 4" thick 703 topless cloud and replaced it with a 4' x 8' x 12" deep hard topped cloud using pink insulation (approx 5000-6000 rayls/m). I also tacked up a few 2' x 4' x 4" thick wall absorbers by the 1st reflection point on the drums (spaced 4" off the wall). A few pics below...

Much more stuff to come! I'll be picking up 24 more 2" 703 panels this weekend and start on the corner super chunks and some more wall absorbers. I can already hear the Snare Drum and Kick starting to get more impact and clarity - and the cymbals sound smoother and more coherent as well - exactly what I'm after!

I do have a question regarding wall absorbers. John specifically confirmed in another thread that a hard topped cloud that is angled appropriately with parallel floor/ceilings would help with my 50Hz ceiling mode issues, and a topless cloud (as I had before) would do literally nothing in the low bass range. Going by that rationale - I still have 2 parallel walls in this room. Would building some hard-backed wall-panel absorbers and attaching them at an angle be of the same benefit in the low bass region for the walls? I can't see why this would be any different from a parallel floor/ceiling with a hard-topped cloud versus a parallel set of walls with some angled hard-backed wall panels - but I'm a drummer after all :)

I'd also LOVE a few confirmations on my new cloud (pics below and also in the other "My Cloud Design" thread on page 2). I built it from 1" x 12" lumber. It uses a 4' x 8' piece of 1/2" B/C plywood as the top with a single 1" x 4" brace across the middle as pictured - and is sealed tightly. Does the top need to be stiffer (thicker or more bracing) or does this sound alright? I'm pondering replacing the other 2 topless clouds with this type design for even more ceiling mode bass control - so I still have time to revise my plan and use a thicker top or more bracing...

Thanks for all fo the input. This is shaping up nicely - if not slowly :)
I'm just one man!

Randy V.
Audio-Dude/Musician/Crazy Guy
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